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Who do you believe could be the beneficiary for Green Ammonia? Existing players who produce ammonia? Or the guys who put up Green Hydrogen plants and then start forward integration to produce Green Ammonia
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You may like to go through the above post , you may get some insights.
While Ammonia can be produced by 3 different commercial process from (1) Hydrogen (2) Coal Syn Gas (3) Methane , but when we say Green Ammonia is necessarily to be produced from Green Hydrogen.
So, any one producing Green hydrogen under PLI scheme can also do forward integration to produce Green Ammonia , however he may not be eligible for two PLI schemes- Green hydrogen & Ammonia.
However if there is some one who produces Green hydrogen without PLI, if that entity wants to produce Green Ammonia under PLI , he would be eligible
This is my understanding from the news article
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Thanks for the insight!
So by the looks of it Green Hydrogen or Green Ammonia at a big level is a play for the already massive organisations and government PSUs.
Small cos like a Anup Engg or Man Industries or Time Techno (But that would happen much later) are very few. Mtars seemed like a good option but promoter selling too much stake and at 15% revenue growth their current valuations don’t seem justified.
Would love to hear from you if you feel any other ways to play this theme
And easier way to play this theme is by betting on the green side of things e.g Wind, Solar etc
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Agree, at this point of time investing in small mid cap/ MSME stock related to green hydrogen value chain appears to be risky.
A lot of research are going on all over the world to produce cheaper hydrogen, electrolyser , fuel cell etc and the technology related to green hydrogen could undergo sea changes which the MSME 's may not be able to adopt quickly, where as large pvt players who are gearing up to provide end to end solutions for green hydrogen like Reliance , L&T , JSW, Adani etc and the PSU’s would be able to quickly adopt to the fast changing technology.
Rightly said , another way to play the hydrogen story is to bet on Established players on solar and wind.
Solar wind energy are the starting point for Green hydrogen production. If there is no solar wind energy, there is no green hydrogen.
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Hi 1957, it seems you have good knowledge on renewable sector. Could you please provide/refer to a set of companies whose major focus is on Renewable EPC, or components for that?
Looking for companies like Waaree, Gensol, Borosil etc. I am already holding IREDA & Tata Power for renewables play, but want to explore some less known companies as well.
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Awesome. Thank you Ascendant ji
Thanx Dear.
I am as good or as bad as you in stock selection. I often get this question in this thread. There is nothing wrong in asking this valid question as things change with passage of time and as soon as I get some update , I give priority in posting this in this forum.
When this thread was started under Green hydrogen, a lot of contribution were made by members like you in identifying renewable stocks, in the process I had also learnt a lot and done investments in names as discussed from time to time , which had really given me 3x, 4x returns…
Coming back to your question on renewables like Solar /wind /Green hydrogen stocks , you already seem to have a good selection.
However , you may like to have a look at these renewable stocks which is a basket of fairly diversified small/ midcap / large ca/ Pvt / PSU as given in the link below. Personally I prefer well known names in mid cap/large cap, PSU stocks.
Members ! To make the discussion meaningful, it would be great if let us have your views on any of these stocks you own or other stocks that you want to own giving reasons. I may have some stocks but not all.
Discl: invested in some of these stocks. not a buy sell recommendation. Please do your own assessment before investing
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De Nora India is a play on green hydrogen, as it manufactures electrodes.
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yes, De nora India is a MNC -a part of De nora group of Italy. They are the leaders in electrode manufacturing & maintenance for fuel cell and Electrolyser.
Recently the parent company has entered in to collaborative agreement with H2U - US based company to manufacture electrolysers
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Om…Pls correct me if my understanding is not inline with this thread and ongoing PSU,Power rally.
To me hydrogen enthusiasm has been priced already …since it is simply an end product of wind & solar power generation.
During weekend while travelling, i overheard youngsters discussing NHPC at a very remote village in south-west of gujarat…I was wondering how to look at such situation where renwable investment has became nextdoor enthuasiasm…many people have moved to equity from savings partially if not fully.
if hydrogen(power,energy,hydrogenation) is the new kid in the town for its possible incremental usage in power. why i say possible usage in power ? because i think energy usage like steel, chemicals through hydrogenation is already known.
Hence with hydrogen theme as a ride, only large companies/MSU might have steam left in them for going an extra quarter or two or year. We may have smaller companies who are into engineering, piping, equipment etc…but they are an engineering companies might be following an order book investment.
I see multiple smallcase has shown ~76% CAGR past 3 year on renwable/Green theme.
My query is - what can one study/focus inorder to identify sustainable growth in revenue for a company engaged in renwable energy.
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LarryWink
Tough question though a good one!
Agree that Green Hydrogen is the end product and renewable energy is the foundation and so the game.starts with Solar and Wind.
NHPC , SJVN are already discovered stories… if you go through this thread and the other threads on sjvn and nhpc , 1-2 yrs back these names were discussed and there were few takers…it was languishing @ 30 level when I was mopping up to build my green energy portfolio.
But today , everybody is chasing. everyone wants to buy at any price and I am happily exiting partially with profit to recover my capital.
Both the stocks have moved up only due to bulging order book on renewables mainly from Govt undertakings but this needs to be converted in to cash and it will take years… if people are ready to wait for 3-5 years , may be some more steam is still left.
Coming back to your point, i am staying away from little known pvt small cap midcap stocks/ MSME, because with so much competition and fast changing technology, i don’t know how they would perform in near term- given the fact that we are still at the early stage of energy transition.
However, well known large pvt/ PSU companies would be able to adopt to fast changing technology. No wonder, Investors have realised this and hence the rally on PSU energy basket - be it NHPC,SjVN, NTPC, power grid to name a few including the NBFC power PSU’s. The oil and Gas PSU are also moving up because everyone is into energy transition.
As a test case, please go through the post on “Best Green energy stocks to buy in India 2024 for portfolio investment” posted yesterday posted above in this thread.
Take the stocks one by one and go to screener to verify financials parameters , and other relevant parameters , you will get your answer.
To put it in one sentence , “some of these
companies are still struggling and though future looks bright , present is bleak” cash flow negative,. i am not comfortable to invest in these kind of stocks when there are large/ mid cap pvt companies/ PSU’s with proven financials are giving 3x,4x returns in a year.
i am not saying that all are going to be bad …some may do well also. so, if you have risk taking ability and you have an art of identifying such companies, go ahead and invest.
This is my personal.view, you should do your own assessment before investing in any renewable stocks.
If I come across any detailed study on your topic , I will be glad to share in the thread .
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10 Companies heavily invested in Hydrogen combustion Engines- A viable option to EV
Reliance Industries to convert its 5,000 ICE trucks (Diesel) to green Hydrogen-powered H2-ICE trucks by mid-2024
Energy transition for Automobiles- It could be a smooth transition from diesel petrol to Green hydrogen , given the fact that the same IC engine platform can be used for Hydrogen as a fuel for automobiles.
Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles would be expensive and it would be all together a completely new engine.
In India, Reliance industries in collaboration with Ashok Leyland is taking the lead to convert its own fleet of 5000 Diesel trucks to Hydrogen this year 2024… Already trial runs of hydrogen vehicles have started since last one year.
Afterall, Reliance is setting up Green hydrogen manufacturing plant and they need to market Green hydrogen as an automobile fuel.
Next decade belongs to Green hydrogen Automobiles though EV’,s may coexist for sometime.
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Om…is there any comparison in terms of capex/running costs or other technological differences for ICE vs FuelCell powered vehicles/systems ?
Why i am asking ? …because there must be something why reliance is not going for FC powered EV against ICE engines.
Can we assume ICE is cheaper than FC in terms of capex & runnig costs ?
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Thanx LarryWink
(1) For both Hydrogen fuel Cell & Hydrogen ICE , the input is Hydrogen.
(2) However, in a ICE as the name suggest, Hydrogen as a fuel is burnt just like diesel petrol to give power.
(3) In a fuel cell vehicle, hydrogen is used in a fuel cell in combo with oxygen from air to produce electricity which drives the vehicle.As there is no burning or combustion involved, there would not be any exhaust gas or emission.
(4).Where as in Hydrogen ICE , there would be exhaust gas but with zero carbon emission. The only emission is NOx and steam. NOx can be very well controlled with proven technology
(5)Fuel cell parts components are expensive with recurrent cost involved in maintenance of fuel cell. there would be rate elements involved and we would be import dependant.
(6) The advantage of Hydrogen ICE is that the engine platform is same as diesel petrol engines with well known components like piston, connecting rod , crankshaft, cam shaft etc which are well developed with reputed auto ancillaries/ vendor base all around the country… in fact we export these components to other countries. So we are self dependent - made in India…
The existing Workshops /Servicing infrastructure can handle hydrogen ICE.
(8) So , logically speaking , both cost - capex and maintenance could be lower in hydrogen ICE.
The only challenge is the building hydrogen filling stations …which has already started at few cities.
(9) But we had the same challenge with EV charging stations a couple of years back , though it has improved with participation from many Pvt players.
we also had similar challenges with CNG filling station a decade back. But to day , CNG filling stations are everywhere.
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Govt issues guidelines for using Green Hydrogen as a Fuel in 4-wheelers/ Trucks, buses at a budgetary outlay of INR 496 Crores till the financial year 2025-26
The scheme will support development of technologies for use of Green Hydrogen
based on fuel cell propulsion technology/internal combustion engine-based on 4 wheelers trucks / buses.
While the budgetary allowance is a miniscule, but it is good that the govt at least looking forward to implement it. The budget allowance is to develop hydrogen fueling stations to start with
Read more at:
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Hydrogen as theme, it would be better to look at pipelines, hydrogen storage and maybe a few of processor companies. No point buying RIL or any of the large caps as even at peak Hydrogen will form small percentage of revenue.
InoxCVA, Confi petro and time techno are involved or contemplating hydrogen storage.
Transport is still up in the air.
Processors will need to understand who will supply key reactive chemicals or equipment for this.
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