Rules require Companies to inform the exchanges whenever they host an institutional meet or analyst meet etc. This has been done to bring in more transparency. From their filing today, seems like an institutional investor, Grandeur Peak Global Advisors LLC is meeting/on a concall with TIC today.
Request you all to write to Mr. Manoj Kumar CV - TICL company sec. for August 25th Presentation and transcripts .
Unlike most companies they don’t send details of Institutional Investors presentation to all .
Regards
Shailesh Naik
Can someone please upload the presentation here. Thanks.
I wrote to company and got following response.
"With respect to your mail, please note that the investor call held on 25th August 2016 was following a request from an investor and there was no presentation made to the investor. The discussions were limited to the information which are available in the public domain.
In case the Company makes any investor presentations, the same would be shared through its website."
I too got the same response .
But we need to be engage with them proactively .
However recently this share is catching investor attention … Not sure why ??
I think some investors realize that this is not like other holding companies. It is like a close ended MF trading at a fair value(non-Tata investments equal to MCap) and 60% of MoS in terms of basket of blue chip dividend paying Tata group stock(this dividend is also being used to invest in non-Tata group companies)
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I think that investors have started to understand Mutual Fund nature of this company rather than holding company. If this theme plays out discount to NAV may reduce further.
I has seen a run of 25% from 500 to 630.
Disc: Not a recommendation to invest. Invested around 515. Not investing at current levels.
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Yesterday CNBC too carried a coverage on the stock and highlighted the same thing which we have talking about for last 3 months .
Discl : Not a recco to invest . Invested @ avg cost price . 470 . Not investing at current levels
Did some rough calculation for bench-marking recent performance against MF.
I took published NAV of 1160 on Sept 15, published NAV of 1420 and Dividend of Rs 17. That is a whopping return of 24%.
Whereas Nifty 100 has returned 12% and Balanced Fund benchmark 8%.
That is huge out performance.
Difficult to conceptualise an investment in TIC now, with so much so much uncertainity with the parent company. The NAV could turn out to be a mirage with the fall in the Tata stocks.
These guys start bickering again and go to courts, the prices of the stocks will again fall. Wonder who they are going to work it out … Mistry remains chairman for many group companies while RT will be the board chairman: There’s limited potential to visualise where this is headed.
Narcissistic injuries are seldom forgotten by anyone and most people act out in ways that are damaging to everyone… High possibility of this happening here
For me it’s a miss at this price and time
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Read the blog by the Nirmalya Kumar regarding his dismissal from TATA. Its a sad state of affairs and the next few months will be volatile. The TATA are not going to go bankrupt or the entire enterprise will not sink with all the chaos . The pice will likely fall in the next few weeks and will there be another entry point for this stock in the next few weeks. This will be dependent on the price of course, whether it falls to a level we will be paid enough to carry that risk. Its not a coffee can portfolio kind of stock; Its the kind you hold for a few months or a year and see if the discount to NAV approaches its median level of many years.
I guess I will be tempted if it touches sub 500 levels; with a published NAV 1425, that would be a good 65 % discount. With the fall in market cap of TATA stocks, the NAV might not sustain there or go up and may actually head way down south.
Since this a forum for seeking value in stocks, we may have some value opportunity with limited downside pretty soon. Theres definitely lot of uncertainty though, but I guess money is made in these times.
This is noise which should get over in next few months. Top level changes do happen like this.
But positive side is, there may be effort for reducing cross holdings and consolidate Tata sons holding in group companies.
In that case there may be liquidation of non-tata holdings in Tata investment, payout of dividends and use that amount to delist Tata Investment. This will allow them to delist company without bringing additional cash to the table. Minority shareholders will get benefit of value unlocking.
True . But Most of good Mutual funds ( NAV Gr ) have done better than Nifty . So here we need to see how does TIC perform vs say HDFC top 200 .
Here again TIC ( inc dividends ) has performed well better than MF over 3 years period and 5 yr period
Also MOS is high on account of discount to NAV ( traditionally the discount is between 30% to 70% ) today it is available at > 60% discount ( near higher band of discount )
It makes sense to own TIC vs any Mutual Fund on 3 levels ( Decent NAV gr , Dividend and MOS of discount to NAV )
Disc : Invested so may be biased .
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Tata Investment Corporation holds NSE shares ( book value 50 crs + ) , Any one has calculated what is additional gain on account of NSE share listing to NAV
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Thanks for this thread. I am now tracking TIC and following are my views:
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Buying TIC is like buying a MF and given that their returns have beaten broader index, it’s a quality investment.
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Discount to NAV is steep even now (56% as per my rough estimate). Any recovery to 40% discount is accretion.
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We are not investing in assets but share price is a reflection of dividends being paid. Hence this is simply a dividend futures. During recession companies tend to stop paying dividend and hence price drops and hence we can see steeper discount to NAV. So we can buy this stock when dividend outlook is bleak. On the other hand, current discount implies weak dividend outlook. The PE of the stock has remained stable mostly. Which implies when companies start paying more dividends the share price will grow.
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The biggest thing is the company can never report losses. Essentially investments are for long term and almost all investments are at a return of 200% absolute terms. Worst case dividends can dip. But total expenses are about 17Cr which is covered by even reduced dividends(as can be seen in the past). Hence the stock is definitely recession proof. Meaning, it will come out of recession for sure. Hence recession will be great buying opportunity.
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The company beats broader index. But the best part of dividend yield. At the current yield of 2.5% it’s a very good core play for the portfolio. You get better than index returns and still a good yield. Given that they payout only 50% of dividends, the implied dividend yield is 5%, 2.5% is paid out and 2.5% is used to buy more shares.
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Value unlocking may never happen. Even if they delist why would they pay us above CMP. But the beauty is they do sell stocks. Any profit for sale of stocks hits PL and hence adds to bottomline and dividends. Hence for a very long term, we can expect sale of stocks bought today (say 10 years hence) which is definitely value accretive.
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I checked if they have any fixed assets. None that I can spot.
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Another good thing is, as people pointed out, low cost of management. At the current market price, total expenses is very miniscule. And I don’t see any reason why they would exit positions.
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On their investments, non-listed ones are a risk. We never know what will be the value unlocking. Say NSE, value may unlock on listing. So NAV will increase. But NSE may end up paying similar dividends as in the past. So share price may not even go up.
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Stability is one thing to note. In mutual fund people keep buying and selling and they declare NAV daily. So the churn in portfolio is tough to handle. Similarly NAV calculations on a daily basis is cumbersome. In TIC, it’s a stable AUM. No churn and no pressure to perform in the short term. Hence this will drastically improve returns in my opinion, which gets compensated by tax paid.
Discl not invested
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TIC has reported earnings for FY17
87ecc41a-a441-4771-8cb0-e5389b9d9562.pdf (516.3 KB)
First thoughts on full year numbers (consolidated):
Sales up 9% largely driven by profit from sale of shares. However, they have written down the loss from investment in Tata teleservices, which is prudent IMO. As a result, PAT was flat YoY.
Dividend declared Rs. 18/share, implying a yield of 2.8% at CMP.
Overall a modest set of numbers, where the write down was offset by general market uptick.
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Good move in last 2 weeks. Any news…
Probably buying ahead of dividend ex-dividend…
Tata Investment AGM
Some points for deliberation
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Mgt has stated they can only invest in India … RBI does not allow them to invest abroad … Need to check more on this
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Reduce No of companies in portfolio from 400 to 100 and plans to do reduce further . But have promised more transparency in terms portfolio analysis - ie CIO will state in AR why of any PF changes
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Dividend payout ratio will be remain @ 55%
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Management is not keen on bonus or rights issue … It wants to have share price indicating NAV Gr and by these corporate actions people get confused about stock perf. Management seems ok to suggestion of having high interest rate FD for shareholders if they require funds to invest …
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Last sentance is confusing. Is it the company will offer High interest rate FD for the shareholders if they want to invest in FD with the company?