Green hydrogen can be directly shipped in Cryogenic tanks ( in line with LNG tankers).
or else can be converted in to NH3 Ammonia or CH3OH Methanol which would serve as Hydrogen carrier which is then shipped easily as Ammonia , methanol both are liquids at room temperature.
Pure EVs and Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are two competitive technologies for zero tailpipe emission now- India will soon see momentum for hydrogen-powered vehicles in transportation
The EV route is viable for two- and three-wheelers. But in cars/taxis and city buses, both pure electric battery vehicles and HFCVs will compete. However, for long-distance inter-State buses and trucks, hydrogen IC engines and/or HFCVs will be the preferred choice.
Leading commercial vehicle makers such as Tata Motors and Ashok Leyland are ready with both hydrogen IC vehicles & HFCV ( Hydrogen Fuel cell vehicles) with the pilot batch for road trial.
Highlights the practical hurdles and inferior unit economics of green hydrogen compared to other forms of green energy with a case study from South Korea.
Folks, I have a question for guys who are tracking green hydrogen sector closely.
How realistic and feasible is technology currently to use seawater (instead of pure water) in hydrogen electrolysis? Is it commercially viable?
I think almost all aspects of the content of the video have already been discussed either in this thread or in Bye Bye Diesel Petrol thread.
Whenever, we try to introduce a new better technology beneficial to mankind, It does not come up so easily, there is going to be technical challenges and so opposite views critics vs proponents and it is always good to listen to views both positive and negative. But the video appears to have been made from a “critics” point of view rather than a “critique” to make it more exciting and to draw more viewers to the content.
The alternate way to get green Hydrogen from.CBG in stead of CNG is well known and is under implementation in various countries including India and so also the battery storage system and hydro storage system
All the the nation’s have their own scientific and research wing and they work in tandem with each other to bring in a technological breakthrough to the world.
I remember when CNG technology in Automobiles was introduced in 2000, similar views were raised by critics- 200 bar pressure in CNG gas cylinder in a vehicle is a bomb in each vehicle - people said… But today Not only millions of CNG vehicles are on road- going forward few months down the line even 2 wheelers will run on, CNG in fact already running in few cities as a Retro fitted. CNG is also rapidly finding it’s place in every home as PNG.
Hopefully , Green Hydrogen would be the ultimate source of energy one day.
Having said that in my view , with the kind of investments being made by all countries in research development work on Green hydrogen to make it affordable for mitigating climate change and decarbonise the economy, Green hydrogen is here to stay because of obvious reasons. The priority seems to be in this order.
(1) Nothing can replace Hydrogen as a feed stock for various industries e.g. Fertiliser , oil refining , steel and many other industries. currently Grey hydrogen being made from methane would be replaced either by Green hydrogen through electrolysis of water by solar wind energy or hydrogen from Biomass Gas or CBG. until massive CBG plants are built, but across all places though it can not take place overnight- feedstock collection and logistic is a big issue currently.
(2) For feeding renewable power to Grids , Green hydrogen has a role to play in terms of storage and later in converting to electricity during peak demand. Until adequate Electrolyser capacities are built up at affordable cost , alternative energy storage solutions like batteries , hydro storage are being implemented extensively.
(3) Green hydrogen as Automobiles fuel as both cell and IC engine version
As of date , pure water is required for PEM electrolysers, which is more proven. AEM electrolyser can work perhaps on Potable water .Electrolysis of direct sea water is still at an experimental stage both in India and elsewhere
Found this interesting article, if it is feasible, it will be game changing in hydrogen space.
Good news-we may have to start another thread named as
So far, we had
"Grey Hydrogen ” made from Methane gas or popularly known as Natural Gas and if compressed known as CNG
“Brown Hydrogen” manufacturer from coal.
“Blue Hydrogen" is the same as gray, but with carbon capture
Now, comes White Hydrogen which is naturally occuring below earth’s surface.
It is definitely going to be a game changer for mitigating climate change if a large scale exploration is conducted across the globe for natural Hydrogen Gas.
In fact Our Chandrayan was also looking for presence of hydrogen in Moon.
Though the stories are anecdotal, it is quite promising.
The anecdotal story that how a driller of a Well got injured while smoking led to discovery of Hydrogen reminds me another such story where 5- 6 people died one after another while digging a deep well in a land for irrigation purpose. After digging a depth of 30ft, two people got suffocated and died. then two more people went to rescue , but never returned. then the word of mouth spread and all villagers gathered and some medico’s of the village came Forward to investigate…they lowered a lighted candle inside the well, after 20 ft deep, there were small explosions around the candle light and as the candle light was lowered further, it got extinguished for want of oxygen.
The doctors did few more tests to confirm that the gas was Hydrogen.
This has happened in India few decades back.
1.Hydrogen flame has no colour…it burns with nearly invisible flame, flame gives “third degree burns”
2.grey hydrogen is also produced by caustic manufacturing company…it is a byproduct to them…in dahej gujarat…few years back…caustic manufacturers were willing to pipe out hydrogen for free.
3.Usually clusters of “Fairy circles” are naturally occuring hydrogen sites.
1.Hindenburg report on bloom energy, Hindenburg States no fuel cells has ever been viable (if i remember the statement correctly , the meaning was close i think) however bloom survived.
2.Hydrogen usage other than chemicals, were discarded but its widely used in space applications.
3.Biggest critic of hydrogen mobility is “Toyota Mirai”…the technology is fully developed but even after a decade the car never went to production assembly.( i mean its still being made but not on the volumes)
1.Hydrogenation is an age old process
2.Amonia production widely uses hydrogen
Conversion to electricity
1.Multiple technologies exist…even within same technology segments they have variying degree of differences(Bloom, Horizon, Advent, Fuelcell Energy,Ballard Power,Blueworld)
2.Each of the technology has niche application.
1.Based on my understading…Hydrogen production is certainly going to be viable…I feel it might be soon !
2.Conversion on the other hand seems to remain costly affair for time to come ( since all the catalyst with which hydrogen reacts are made of noble metals…e.g. palladium, platinum)
3.There are conversion applications where cost is secondary.
Overall i am optimistic on hydrogen economy, if they do not take out the whole train. As they did with TRAMs & took out TRAMs altogether. because they had already invested in oil prospecting,drilling,distillation and wanted to sale more cars and only more cars can consume more oil while the TRAM on the otherhand was electric mass mobile vehicle!
A couple of points :
(1) Hydrogen flame has no colour , but for burning it needs oxygen. if there is no Air/ oxygen , obviously combustion can not take place
(2) Grey Hydrogen usage is age old practice in various Industries…and now these industries are turning to Green hydrogen with targeted time lines for decarbonisation. This is rapidly taking place.
(3) Green hydrogen to Electricity conversion for feeding to grid initially faced challenges due to inadequate electrolyser -Fuel cell manufacturing capacity- now it is overcome with alternate energy storage solutions such as BESS, pumped hydro storage etc.
(4) Automobiles-though Fuel cell technology is sound and proven…adoption is slower due to few reasons :
(a) Hydrogen infra - handling storage and filling stations. China takes the leadership with 250 Hydrogen filling stations , Japan no 2 with 160., though Japan Toyota Honda pioneered Fuel cell.
(b) Cost of Green hydrogen currently high , but expected to come down with scale.
(c) Fuel cell is expensive due to rare earth elements like platinum…But again newer Technology development can identify cheaper material.
(d) Though Hydrogen technology is few decades old, but it did not receive much attention that it deserved. Now that the theme is climate change and the entire globe is in to it…it should move
(5) The other more practicable solution alternate to Fuel cell is hydrogen IC engine vehicle for a country like India.
The century old petrol diesel IC engine platform remains as it is with some changes in material composition. the same set of existing Auto ancillaries can cater to OEM’s
Hydrogen when used as IC engine fuel can give off H20 only in exhaust with Zero carbon… The only issue is NOx - nitrogen from air in the combustion process. But this can be handled very well as we do in petrol diesel engine.
Cost of hydrogen IC could be lower than fuel cell…so almost all auto OEM currently working on Hydrogen IC apart from Fuel cell.
Apart from all our Auto OEM in India , other MNC’s those who have developed hydrogen IC are MAN, Komatsu, BMW, Honda, JCB, Toyota, Hyundai, Volvo, Volkswagen and Renault Group.
If we compare batteries with Hy FuelCell or Hy ICE for mobility space.
The batteries have clearly won the race. With my limited understanding , Hy FC or Hy ICE wont be able to compete with batteris anytime soon.
Battery enjoys The economy of scale and chinese scale of manufacturing.
But both are fundamentally different technologies and Hy FC & ICE becomes necessary/advantageous over battery, for specific applications.
Goes without saying the benefits of battery. That way nothing can compete with petrol diesel IC engine vehicles in terms of driveability , power , pick up & Serviceability and no imports except the fuel.
The main issue with batteries are three :
(1) Supply chain and availability of rare earth elements like lithium available only in few nations only. So we are 100% import dependent.
Look at what happened to semiconductor issue during last 2 years. The entire auto industry collapsed.
(2) Lithium batteries stack occupy a lot of space and Requires Recharging and recharging currently done through Thermal power. world over , 90% power is through thermal coal currently.
(3) life cycle Study shows that battery has more carbon emissions than even conventional.
The report is Cradle-to-Grave LCA which takes care of the entire life cycle of extraction, refining , manufacturing, maintenance and recycling for a fixed life of 2,00,000 kms.
Curious…how Balu forge is related with Green hydrogen ?
Ducon infratech is working on Green Hydrogen Electrolyzer.any idea about this company.its a debt free company and profitable for last few years.