As per the EPFO data their subisdiaries EK deisgn industries have 29 employees and while hills interior 30 employees.
Hi guys,
Try to do some scuttlebutt on the coworking space to get a comparative understanding, there is a lot more to come and will also try to address lot of concern in the thread to my best knowledge
Big shout out to @Darshan_Gala for the help in Mumbai and accompanying me in hyd
I would also recommend to read the latest nuvama report on EFC lot of details there as well
EFC hyd office visit notes
- 2nd floor is 1 year old, from 4th to 7th floor it is new set up
- Total we have 2000 seating capacity and we covered almost 1400
- xyz they have taken 800 seats but only 200 people would come and use it, so they pay rent for 800
- Another company on this floor mostly they only paid rent and did not come and use here, cuz they had work from home
- 1 manager cabin is treated a 4 billable seats
- 1 week we will take for any kind of modification of a room and that would be free of cost
- 2 wheeler parking is free on first come first basis
- 24 complimentary hours every month to use the board room
- 30 billable seat and approx 1000 sq ft
- There is no carry forward for there 24 complimentary hours and if u use your 24hrs and need another 24ths that would cost about 7000 rs for entire 24hrs
- A 37 seater room currently in notice period the company has taken their own office and only come once in a month
- We have local vendors for any kind of customization to the room and it doesnât take a lot of time since it is all POP, and we work on Saturday and Sunday since there are no client during that time and disturbance is least
- Wifi 100-150 mbps per person
- You can take a 24/7 kind of contract where your employee can come any time but the costing there would be 500 rs more than the normal one
- Night shift would cost around 9000 rs which would be slightly negotiable
- In this particular zone our pricing is lowest because our building is slightly old
- Dry pantry is also not chargeable
- In Begumpet EFC has one more building that serves one single client tech mahindra around 2000 seats.
- We are in talks with TCS and google to give them space here in this location
- We start with minimum 5 seats but that gets sold out in less than a week always because startup companies taken them quickly
- Our building used to earlier come under grade A now it comes under grade B
- The coffee vending machine can be used and that is free of cost
- 2nd 4th 5th 6th and 7th floor is with EFC as of now,
- In this floor (4th) we have around 550 seats and occupied around 257 and this floor is around 1 month old and 7th floor was made in august so around 1.5/2 months , we donât allow food inside cabin because small insects come there cuz of small pieces of food
- The entire building has one pantry in 10th floor and that has been developed by EFC
- One client started with 6 seats then within one month, they moved to 16 seats and now they want more their business is UK based some coding
- The EFC building is away from metro about 4 km, so for girl bus keeps coming which is free of cost otherwise 20rs one side charge by auto (I gave 70 rs to 2 wheeler rapido)
- This company has moved from 30 seater to 80 seater
- Workafella are coating around 12k per seat, Iceberg (we work) charges around 15k per seat, we get to know the rates from consultancy
- 8500 per seat without GST for 1 seat in this building , negotiable
- We hand over the AC remote to the client
- 14 tier AC accommodates 35 people and 1 tier accommodates around 7 people
- Every floor has 2 conference room one is 6 seater and one is 14 seater
- The entire building also has around 2000 seats only
- Our staff comes in 2 shift one in the morning and one in the evening so you will have 24/7 security/electrician/ technician, floor manager etc etc
- This building is around 11 to 15 yrs old
- All seats are manufactured by EFC and we are also selling them outside
- 6th floor just recently closed a 60 seater client
- One odd time if u delay your rental payment we can accept and will intimate you to pay on time next time but regular delays we donât accept
- We keeps sharing with consultants and IPC the availability of seats every month
- EFC does not have their own marketing whatever comes is bought by consultants only
- Our entire business almost runs on consultants only
Just for context this center was a multi client center so less than 35% is from consultants
EFC proposal
- At the end she said we can also do at 7k to 7.5k per seat that should not be a problem at all
EFC 4th floor plan
Insight
- The biggest insight is EFC makes large format offices meaning you can see the setup is in such a way that I can give 100 seats to one tenant by removing the walls (purple line)in a particular section whereas in AWFIS and regus I did not find this like in AWFIS the max office size was 28 seats and in regus largest room is 6 seater and even if u break walls you can go up to 25 max. So EFC does not go for small centers they generally go for the entire building
2nd + 4th + 6th + 7th floor total seats = 1933 seats occupied 1415 vacant 518 (some floors are very new)
REGUS (hyd)
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aaa was the sales manager
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We completed about 35 years of operation
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130 seats (one month old) 50 already sold .
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They are based out of suchitra so sab 2km ke pas vale hi lete hai bcz yeh jaha h traveling is not easy metro, is far yaha pr auto ,cabs .rtc facility.
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Common entry and exit for all the people totally controlled by dedicated access system
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One dedicated team member will be there for help from mon to friday .Sat and Sun they dont work but access to your seat would be available 24/7/365 .
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Common coffee and tea (1900 per person per month if not 15rs per coffe per tea
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In 15 locations in Hyderabad
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Complimentary access to biz lounge free of cost in any of their centers all over the world so about 120 country and 3000 location (example i took an office in Hyderabad but some of team mates are in delhi they can go to one of their offices in delhi and work in this area of that office
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2 medium board rooms (6 seater and 4 seater)1200 rs per hour (6 seats),any help they will help .1100 per hour 4 seater you need to reach out to the center team in the email
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Size of the offices are from 2 seater,3,5, and 6 is maximum
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Any regus space is from 2 seater to 10 seater max
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Partition breaking is chargeable which is around 10k per wall breaking and the wall is made out of gypsum
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Acâs 24/7 365 days without any registration No extra money for it and remote is given to the client (this is doubtful as contract says something else)
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50mbps speed wifi.
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2 wheeler 100 slots (complimentary)4 wheeler first come first serve basis.(if dedicated chahiye 6600 per slot per month)
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Yaha par bhi same casset ac same brand
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The entire center only had one room with a manager cabin
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One 8 seater community meeting room is there which can be used 2hrs free daily complimentary and for usage need to be intimated a day or half day before
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How do they come up with per seat cost?-combination of 3 parameters .size, view, total seats combination of all these they come to per seat cost
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Window seat with outside building view 55k seats for 4 seats
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Without view 45k seats
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10-15k per partition so if somebody need 25 seats they will have to break 5 walls so about 65k partition cost
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24/7 access to office
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Payment delay nahi chalega , if you pay late then we have late payment fees
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Regus printer is 15 rs per print chargeable
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We are a bit flexible as well if you will ask us a chair when you need one extra one we donât charge for that and we will help
Regus D&B vendor notes
- 14th of October is the opening and for about 2 floor it is 193 seats which is being taken by regus. This facilityâs largest room is 9 seater, We started the work about 60 days back and the entire work would be completed in around 65 days and we are their all over India vendor (AK space solutions). AWFIS also we have done some work. Like for regus we have to finish the work in 70 days
Regus Proposal
Regus layout
AWFIS (hyd)
- In This building if u are looking for about 50 seats which would be approx 2500 sq ft
- I can switch on the AC beyond the permissible limit but there is a cost to that
- If u want to take a space in a bare shell where you can customize it based on your need we would take about 45 to 60 days to do the interior
- Usually my contract would be 42 months , 36 + 6 month notice and 6 month deposit with yearly escalation of 7% and your car and bike parking are additional to cost
- Wifi is not chargeable and racq space is chargable
- 8500 to 8000 closing per seat we can work out (there is a catch)
- Normally we tend to create 4,6,8,10 seats anything bigger than that is build to suit, we create that as per the customer and requirement as and when required
- This center has about 513 seats and majority is booked except one which has about 18 seats, 1 reception and 3 cabins and billable is 53 seats
- Security is here 24/7
- The total super built-up area is 2113. The calculation we take is approx. 42 to 43 sft for each workstation, hence the billable seats are 50 (have a look at the layout_below and count the seats)
Proposal
Layout
Insight
- When you take up a large floor and u divide areas in rectangular shapes like in EFC layout it is like 4 big rectangle in each corner, then the space increases and u can divide offices very easily with a POP etc etc but the AWFIS center I visited number one they have lot of rooms and lot of walls + most of the room I saw are not rectangular so in this case I think u donât end up using the space effectively. Like the above layout u can see is a bit slanting form the front and I think reception they were forced to make and some more offices I have tried to draw below + there is higher resistance for any kind of chang
EFC mumbai,
- 30 sq per seat and manager cabin is considered about 4 seats
- What we are looking for is a good lockin, For smaller requirement we slightly close on a higher side, like the 5,6, seats requirement we pitch around 13k and we close around 9.7/9.8k based on requirement and if it is 4-5 seats we pitch 15k and close around 11k
- So for 11 seat we pitch around 12.5k and closing is 9.5k and we can do little bit more aage piche and we donât charge for customization (this is just initial discussion once u do the LOI and go to final stages I am sure they can to 8.5k as well)
- If u have scope of expansion I can bill u for 7 seats for first 2 months and then from 3rd month I will bill for 11 and for first 2 months u can use the whole premises
- Parking is better to go with the developer if u go with us it is 2400 per car park but if u go to the developer he charges 1100, we charge this much because we did not take the slot
- Tea and coffee is not included form our side but we can tie u up directly with good vendor and get u a good discount
- Payment delay 2-3 teams in a year is not a big challenge but if done regularly it is not good we will take penealty
- Meeting 4 seater room can be used 1-2 hrs on daily basis and big one can be used for 12-15 hrs in a month
- We are very much flexible I can give u a lot of flexibility but I cannot mention all that on papers
- BKC 1 is 20k sqt and this facility in kurla is 10k sqt
- Most of the other players charge around 25k in BKC and we are closing at around 17k and BKC right now is at 100% occupancy and we have around 504 seats in BKC and in Kurla (this facility) around 350-380 seats we have, some of our clients are moving out of kurla as they want other location so we have seats here but all of this would be booked in about 1-2 month.
- We will be the lowest cost provider in kural as well, Pheniq has their own facility as well and they charge around 12k (EFC office is in Pheniq mall in Kurla) AWFIS is slightly expensive of us and they are closing around 11k
- If u take around 7 seats then we will also take up to 11k but I have to see how we can work out I will discuss with my team
AWFIS (mumbai)
- They will have a 4 seater cabin available from 1st of nov if not that then on 15th floor they have 4 9 n 10 seaters by dec end till then they can accommodate in common area
- Manager cabin is 4 seats
- 15th floor they are constructing cabins they will have different configuration
- They have started the presales of cabins on 15th floor as there are only 2 cabins that are going to be 5 seater
- On 15th floor they are revamping only 70 seats
- They are here since 2017
- They bill seats wise
- Per seat charges is 13k + taxes this is inside a cabin charge
- N open area seats is 11k+ taxes
- Meeting credits can be used pan india
- There are 2 meeting rooms in both the floor
- Per seat they give 1 meeting credit complimentary extra charges for extra usage of meeting room depends on the area of the meeting room like the 4 seater meeting room they have in this center they charge 800rs tax n 1200+tax is for 6 seater
- Customization charges will be beared by us but 1st they will try to find a cabin according to our requirement if not then they will do the customization (In AWFIS if u want a customized office they would make that in a bare shell for u but once it is made post that it is more difficult as compared to EFC)
- N we will get 1 car parking for 5+1 n this will be chargeable n 2 wheelers outside building is 500per month this Is with mcgm
- They will adjust the delay in payment of 2 3 months
- Dry pantry is complimentary tea coffee n water
- Printing bnw 30
- Wifi 100mbps
- Monday to Friday timing is 8am to 8pm
- Saturday timing is 8am to 5pm
- 24*7 charges needs to be checked extra charge per hr is 200 per seat per hr this includes everything
- Bt generally on sat in their office ppl work till 7 but on agreement they mention it open till 5 only this kind of adjustment they do
- Ac remote will be with us
Nuvama report
efc-i-ltd.pdf (1.3 MB)
Disc - invested, biased, can be wrong
43 Likes
Great work @manhar and @Darshan_Gala. I also visited a couple of offices in Pune and below are some of the insights ( I will not repeat the points that you have mentioned such as inclusions and exclusions etc.):
- Sprint is premium as compared to EFC. The difference in the rent is around 500 to 1000/seat.
- The EFC had 3 floors in the building that I visited and they were planning to acquire one more floor.
- Of these 3 floors, one floor was entirely occupied by Conneqt (an Quess Corp company)
- They have acquired 2 more floors in another office which is around 500 meters from the existing office
- They usually go for grade-B or grade-C property but the location is the key.
- Both the offices that I visited were main road-touch with good connectivity.
- Once they take property, do some renovation and once the occupancy starts increasing, the grade of the property also improves.
- The office that I visited in Pune, was grade-C, which later got upgraded to B.
- The offices are cleaned every morning and deep-cleaning happens over weekend. It was actually happening when I visited the office on Saturday.
- Asked the salesperson âwhy their charges are lowest in the areaâ and he said that they do everything in-house, including design and build and hence their rates are lowest.
- Spoke with employees of the some of the companies there and got positive feedback only. All were saying that admin staff of EFC is very helpful and available for all the help required.
- One of the employee highlighted recent incident where someone from his company needed emergency hospitalization and EFC admin team went above and beyond to help the person in need. In fact one of the EFC admin staff offered to donate his plasma for the patient.
- Some of the clients present in the office that I visited were:
- Conneqt
- Dataverze
- Pixstone
- ApTask
- Contentserv
- Distinct Digital Media
- ClimateHub
- Acensys
- Crestere
- Blue automation
- ProcDNA
- EFC usually keeps some space vacant in the office/property in order to allow existing clients to expand without having to move anywhere else.
- Most of their clients continue with EFC for very long duration and usually leave only when their size becomes too big.
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Quite a positive sign in a sector with significant tailwinds!
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Hi all, why the number of employees is so less (17 permanent employees) compared to Awfis (around 3k employees). I could not get the details for EFC whether they subcontract almost everything but even then 17 is too less.
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Yeah. Looks odd. Need to dig deeper.
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Q2 concall
EFC(I) Limited Q2FY25 Concall Summary:
Financial Performance:
- Consolidated revenue reached INR 171.08 crore, revenue grew by 63% in Q2 FY25 and 77% in H1 FY25 YoY.
- H1 FY25: Consolidated revenue reached INR 276.36 crore, EBITDA around INR 133.59 crore, and PAT of INR 52.33 crore.
- Consolidated net profit jumped by 131% in Q2 FY25 and 267% in H1 FY25 YoY.
- Consolidated EBITDA of around INR 84 crore, and PAT of INR 36.56 crore.
- Cash flow from operations stood at INR 150 crores for H1FY25, 4x from H1FY24.
- EPS for Q2FY25 is 7.34 not 14.69 which management reported in their exchange filing.
Operational Performance:
- Rental Segment: Generated approximately INR 89.2 crore in revenue, constituting 54% of total revenue.
- Design and Build (D&B) Segment: Contributed INR 77.24 crore, amounting to 46% of total revenue. Secured an order book exceeding INR 70 crore, including a large contract with TCS worthover Rs.18 crore.
- Rental Business: Operates on a ~30% EBITDA margin at the center level and ~25% at the corporate level.
- D&B: EBITDA margin averages 17-18%, with potential for higher margins (24-25%) on projects with higher complexity.
- In the Design and Build Segment total team size of 40 peoples, includes your architects that includes your designers and also includes your sales teams part of it.
- Furniture Manufacturing: Successfully completed the first order after commercial production commenced in September 2024. The order book looks promising, with a revenue target of INR 60-75 crore for the fiscal year.
- Managed Office Business: Increased leasehold area by ~125,000 sq. ft., adding 3,600 seats across four existing city centers.
- Total Footprint: 61 operational sites across eight Indian cities, covering 2.4 million sq ft, with a total seat capacity exceeding 50,000.
- Furniture business started its production on 28th September so actual number will flow from Q3 onwards.
- Rental Business: Receivable cycle is generally less than 30 days.
- Design and Build: Receivable cycle averages around 90 days, due to the project-based nature of the business.
- Furniture Manufacturing: Receivable cycle is expected to be between 60-90 days, with a focus on institutional clients.
- Management plans to share a detailed breakdown of receivables by segment in future financial updates.
- Management is committed to expand their seat capacity to 65,000 - 70,000 by end of this FY.
- Total Billed seats are 42183, up by 9% QoQ.
Key Takeaway from Concall:
- Usually Q1 has lower margin as compared to other 3 quarters, as seats are under development and discussion with landlords usually takes place in Q1. So once the seats get occupied and billing starts the benefits start from coming quarters. This cycle goes for every quarter but usually happens in Q1.
- Design and Build Division has higher receivables as it takes time from the day order is received and design build and approved. Also clients took some amount of money as retention money, typically what happens in EPC business. Roughly receivable periods go from 0 to 180 days.
- Since management is focusing on contract value of more than 25,000 square feet where organised clients are more, thatâs why cash flow is in a better position than earlier.
- âAll the assets that will be acquired that the SMREIT they will be independent and they will not be having any direct link to the assets that our company ownsâ EFCIL will book only the management fees under REIT business.
- One question is raised on the fixed rental and managed aggregation model; for which Iâm attaching concall snippet as management has explained in a very simple way.
- Management is right on their part because if we see mgmt is providing fixed income to landlord, though downside is protected, mgmt is also not sharing revenue% with landlord, which can also impact margin in the future because everyone knows that COWORKING will exist here taking 5-10 years time frame, so why not go with some other model? And everyone is also aware of the WeWork scene so no one will commit the same mistake in the future.
- Going forward you can certainly at least expect a full revenue for 50,000 seats and obviously partial revenue for the new 15,000 to 20,000 seats which are going to be operational ahead.
- Management expects to maintain an annualized EBITDA margin around 30% at the center level and 25% at the corporate level. PAT margin of around 15-16%.
- In this year furniture will contribute not more than 15%, however in future the company will keep equal revenue for all the three divisions 33% each.
- Average rate per seats still remains around INR 6250 but with the new seats getting added more and more and they are getting sold at a higher rate of INR 6500 upwards as it is already evidenced by companies entering into larger office spaces.
Management on larger space; There are obviously benefits. In acquiring the larger space is the economy of scale that we are able to achieve. We are yes acquiring or rather acquiring these old rights over the larger area.
- Again a question is raised on competition in the industry, in which management admitted that competition will remain as always which exists in every industry but presence of PAN India players is still not visible in this space, regional players are more in this space.
- One very interesting question which was on valuation of INR 545 crore for whitehill, I know itâs a very absurd valuation and the fact the merchant banker and Registered valuer has already furnished the report so there is no question to be asked now. Why am I saying this? Iâm doing my CA articleship in valuation domain and I know how we arrive at the final value, all the inputs are furnished by management and they provide the final value to be arrived at and it too depends on the future estimates of the management. There is no point to escalate this point further.
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Interesting. How is it possible to run a company with just 17 permanent employees if some one can explain?
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just saw a post on Twitter, there is apparently a gap between Consolidated and sum of the standalone on Twitter
is this true and possible, and if yes, then what can explain ?
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Btw, Mukesh on twitter is the best handle when it comes to forensics.
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17 is the number of full time employees. Perhaps this company hires contractors for most of its work, including high value roles like design and build.
Yeah. He is. I follow him myself. But his earlier analysis might not be entirely thorough - x.com . There are some open questions no doubt but it may not be as bad as it seemed earlier.
Clarification for the above query
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Please pardon my ignorance but can you help me where did you get this concall transcript from ? I know alphastreet does it but beyond a point it asks to register. Asking because I track 300+ companies and there are usally 4-5 calls and I often miss them so have to read transcript immediately.
Prabal you can use these two website to convert audio into text, itâs totally free as of now.
Log In | TurboScribe ( Limit of 3 Audio/Day )
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