Very well written Dev
Angel team was candid to admit they will understand how to monetize non broking revenues
The bellwether for Angel would be Bajaj Finance
Contrast with PayTM, one on one, Angel trumps them on gross income, core broking business ARPU, cross sell ( incipient)
Execution is key
Grabbing Tier 2 and Tier 3 (albeit lowers overall ARPU) will pay dividends IF and it is a big IF the new Digital Natives stay loyal to Angel
Biggest risk is FnO as largest contributor to ARPU
They need to find a profitable strategy to avoid this golden hen being killed
All in all at current valuations the number one Fintech play
D - Invested, top 3 holding
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Dhani is launching 0 brokerage platform. Will be interesting to see how this impacts established players who are offering 20 rupees brokerage.
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I think what will also start happening with these free services is that customers with low LTV (life time value) will move to these new platforms that will show up in their increased market share ( in terms of demat accounts) but won’t show up as much from revenue or ADTO.
So, its not just about getting market share but also optimizing for LTV/CAC ratio. Brokers who keep adding to their LTV while minimizing their CAC will be the winners. From that stand point I see a lot of conviction in Angel One and these new “free” brokerage offerings from Paytm, Dhani etc. dont seem to make the cut.
Additionally, I don’t see that quality in terms of management as well in any of these firms.
Disclosure: Invested
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Check this interesting tweet.
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Angel One seems to be loosing perception game in online as well as social media space.
Any review about their services and products in here would be very useful.
Thank You.
I was checking online reviews on Chittorgarh and found Angel broking ranked below Zerodha by a huge margin, Below GROWW by even huge margin.
Complain to Active client ratio highest among top 5 Brokers,
Youtube broker comparision videos feature predominantly ZERODHA, UPSTOX, GROWW, 5Paise, PayTm and ICICI Direct.
Angel one was missing form many vidoes.
This is my observation about perception, reality can be different and thats why looking for honest sevice and product review from users in here.
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I might be an exception, I moved from ZeroDha to Angel one, Zerodha is good for buying and selling shares they have the best UI no doubt, When it comes to options trading ZeroDha sucks bigtime, they wont allow you to Sell/buy options 3 strikies away from current ATM that was ridiculus , they day i figured this out immediatlely i moved my portfolio to Angel One, and i have no plans to move to ZeroDha , Eagerly waiting for AngelOne’s new UI, which should be out in next 4-6 weeks
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Best way to scuttlebutt this is to look at Google play reviews to see why people rate the app highly or lovely.
Old icici direct had a rating of 2.4. New one is better at 4.2. Right now the user experience battle is neck & neck. Don’t go by narratives. Go by data. Data never lies.
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Yes, totally agree on this point. I opened it for the same reason. I have zerodha as my primary account.
Here are the pros and cons that I could list having used angel broking for the last few months.
Pros:
→ People shift from zerodha for F&O trades due to open interest limits by SEBI.
→ Zero maintenance charge for the first year (A big plus for many users who just want to start investing with 10k or with a smallcase).
→ Cashback offers during account opening. Huge plus, as many people won’t have multiple demat accounts. Once they get a customer to deposit, he might stick to it lifetime.
→ Partnership with vested/smallcase.
Cons:
→ Being a day trader, I personally won’t open angel broking unless I have to hedge my position and the strike price isn’t available to trade in zerodha.
→ The desktop UI is really really bad, and very slow/hangs sometimes too. Bad for frequent traders like me, who prefer desktop always.
→ About the mobile app, they spam with a lot of notifications. Also, I have observed, almost all of their F&O recommendations fail, seriously they should stop it. Had to switch off notifications for the app because of that.
→ Have observed with other investors that we cannot sell a portfolio holding without cdsl authentication for the day. Not the case with zerodha.
Disclaimer:
Not invested. Will look into it once the desktop UI improves.
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I belive this is the case with ZeroDha too, i might be wrong , but anyways what i do is i sell the stocks as intraday and convert my postions to carryforward, so i dont have to worry abt CDSL auth immediately.
I usually trade options using Sensible coupled to AngelOne, so i am ok with their showdy app and web appllication
For me freedom to choose my option strike prices is paramout, everything else i can bear, i know few others have a differnt opion and i respect it
[quote=“Sachtiw098, post:92, topic:56847”]
About the mobile app, they spam with a lot of notifications. Also, I have observed, almost all of their F&O recommendations fail, seriously they should stop it. Had to switch off notifications for the app because of that.
[/quote] I have turned off their notifications so it hardly matters
Zerodha is like IOS when it comes to usability and AngelOne is like Android when it comes to features and freedom
I too go by emerical data and Chittorgarh website has numerous reviews along with parameter based ratings like:
- Fees
- Brokerage
- Usability
- Customer service
- Research capabilities
There the ratings are rather discouraging.
Another data point is complaint per Active user.
-Angel one has highest complains per active client as per NSE data published every month among the top 5 brokers.
One data point like Google ratings are pointing towards positive view of the company.
Ther are three different data points where two are slightly negative and one data point that is encouraging.
This is the reason I want to know first hand reviews from the forum members about their products and services to get the real picture.
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Marquee investors- Vanguard has picked stake
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Newsflow around peers valuations
Exclusive | Groww in talks to raise $150 million at a valuation of $4-$5 billion
Explains market enthusiasm around price action in last few days.
Mgmt in Q3 call has indicated super App launch around Q1 start, monthly updates in recent volatile few months has demonstrated good resilience.
Invested
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Hi Sahil…
I m holding Angel one shares. But I personally use icicidirect as my preferred platform.
What are your views on ICICI Securities. To me it looks as good as Angel one on most financial parameters. Why is the mkt assigning lesser valuations to ICICI Securities. What is it that I am missing.
Ur comments on the same, or comments by anyone else will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
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- Did icici sec hire a ceo from Google or uber ? Angel is hiring it’s entire tech team from fortune 500 tech giants. This results in an intangible which market is willing to assign some premium. Let’s call it the “super app premium”. If super app is great then valuations may sustain if they are not then that part of premium may go away.
- Although icici sec has better quality customers which shows in its ebitda margins, we have to think about the directional view for growth. Today, growth comes only from the tier 2/3 customer who is lower arpu lower ebitda margin. Angel is already there. Icici has to grow there by diluting it’s customer quality. The direction matters. We should focus on where the puck is moving
- Is icici sec applying for amc licence & does it have a smart beta strategy which has been time tested & can be launched as a smart beta ETF ? That is another reason for the premium
Stack 1 : price action
Stack 2: screener
Stack 3: intangibles & talking to people
This is where the greatest alpha lies because it is not numeric. It is about predicting what sort of intangibles market may be able to assign significant premium too and stack 3 will always be more art than science.
Last but not least, all of these are some random reasons a random human came up with on request of another random human, i in no way claim that these reflect the truth. I can only guess with our hindsight bias what reasons exist. There is no way to confirm or deny so please take it with a bucket of salt. 
Disclaimer: invested & biased in angel
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Great points. I would like to run some anti thesis ideas by you…
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What would be opportunity size for Smart Beta ETFs? As we saw Largecap funds lagged indices only when Reliance was rallying with broad market falling which made whole idea of passive investing made sense. Now that rally is somewhat distributed evenly, arguments for Active investing has started to make sense for investors.
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Being a cyclical business, don’t you think market is assigning too much optimism in stock at current valuation? Even promoters would be regretting IPO price if they were so confident in company’s ability to maintain its growth trajectory in market downturn.
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At the end of the day, Angel’s businesses are directly correlated to Markets. In downturn, Broking as well as AMC both will face headwinds.
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Regarding super app, how feasible do you think whole super app is? We have seen jack of all trades lose to master on one apps quite frequently. What exactly can Angel do that Zerodha can’t? or VC fueled Upstox/Groww can’t?
These are some points that stop me from taking position in Angel at current valuations.
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ESOPs has been a bone of contention in most of new age listed startups, given to founders and employees at fraction of prevailing prices, ESOP policies changes just before IPO to accommodate clauses favoring mgmt and so on…
Glad to see a sane approach - both Quantum and pricing mechanism in Angel ESOP, fair to investors as well while attractive tool to retain talent as well in current high Attrition scenarios
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Have used Angel One in the past, and can confirm for sure, that it has a quite poor experience, miles apart from Zerodha. Some of the issues I faced:
- Mutual fund buying - they hold indirect funds.
- Mandate approval is pathetic: No details are provided as to where the issue is.
- Mutual fund price is not accurate - delayed by a few days.
- No helpdesk sort of structure, where you can open tickets, they assign a business associate, who helps for any queries.
Thus, the same rating may not be the correct way to analyze, as they are a lot of fraudulent ways to upgrade rating.
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Good monthly nos. from Angel. Will likely do 700 crore revenues and 200 crore PAT in this quarter and close FY’22 with 2300 crore topline and 620 crore PAT, implying 80% growth in topline and 100% growth in PAT over FY’21.
Even if they manage to grow at half the pace, which is 50% in FY’23, revenues would be 3500 Crores and with a 25% net margin, PAT could be 850 crores.
Still trading at 16 times one year forward earnings, which is very reasonable for a company growing at 50%.
For the formula inclined, available at PEG ratio of 0.33
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