Vinati Organics

Few answers we should look for …

  1. http://www.patentbuddy.com/Patent/6504050
    Significance of ATBS process patent (owned by NCL/Vinati) in its market dominance. This patent has Priority Date- Mar 13, 2002, so it is most likely to expire in 3-22, just 2.5 years away. Are there more patents at later date or what are other factors which will keep advantage with Vinati as far as ATBS goes?

  2. Why no one else developed an alternate process as efficient as ATBS prod process of NCL? is it difficult to come up an alternative or market size did not justify.

  3. Can Vinati reduce the share of ATBS, in its product portfolio by Mar-22m by how much?

  4. What are the other substitutes of ATBS in development phase in the labs?

Disclosure : Invested. among top holding

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  • Vinati will now have 40,000 MT capacity for ATBS = 100% of current world demand.
  • Vinati is expecting that all new increase of ATBS demand (~10% = 4k MT/Yr), they will be able to capture it all, as no other player is expending the capacity.
  • This will translate to 15% growth in their ATBS business. (4000 MT/ 26000 MT = 15% , it should tapper off as they gain more market share?).
    .
  • Butyl Phenols - can generate 400+Cr top-line growth, expecting to do 80-100Cr in FY20.

With 6% guidance in existing business and 80-100Cr from Butyl Phenols FY 20 Revenue should be ~1250Cr , which can go up to 1600-1700Cr for FY21 (28-35% growth over FY20) with higher capacity utilization in BP and 15% growth in other products.

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110 Cr for setting up 14000 MT facility = 320Cr for all the demand of ATBS ( ~1000Cr) in the world, not a big amount!
Do you have a view/example of other specialty chemicals where one company has monopoly . .how it plays out in long term (for small companies)?

If the company grows to ~ 1220-1270 crore in FY 20 (10-15%) of sales growth and then Butyl Phenol scales up to INR 250 crore in FY 21 (full scale is INR 400 crore), other existing segments grow by 10%, new ATBS capacity adds INR 250 crore. This would imply revenue of ~ INR 1730-1800 crore, which is ~ 42% growth from FY 20. What am I missing?

As per my understanding, the growth guidance is including revenue coming from incremental capex.

Thats for FY 20 which I am estimating INR 1220 -1270 crore (10-15%) growth over FY 19. Btu what about FY 21? If Butyl Phenol scales up to INR 250 crore in FY 21 (full scale is INR 400 crore), other existing segments grow by 10%, new ATBS capacity adds INR 250 crore. This would imply revenue of ~ INR 1730-1800 crore, which is ~ 42% growth from FY 20?

It think FY21 revenue estimate should be calculated as >> FY 20 revenue estimate + incremental utilization of butyl + incremental utilization of ATBS.

And again all this is all assuming prices of underlying products do not go down and they are able to increase the utilization to desired levels.

In 2019 Annual Report they have mentioned they will be doubling their revenue in next 3 years.

How have they shaped up to do that if there is softness in pricing and margins dropping?

This is relevant to Vinati.

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One of the panelist here is Ms. Vinati:

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IB is one of the major input to Butyle Phenol, not sure what are other top input by value?
DGTR initiated process in August, how long does it take to complete?

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Mgmt interview on outlook

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It’s surprising that article mentions Butylphenol plant to be ready in January next year.

The below interview mentioned that it will be ready by November. Looks like teething issues are still there.

Again earlier guidance in above interview was ~100 crores sales for H2 from this plant, while in the article it’s mentioned as 50-60 crores in Q4.

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They seem to be facing issues in putting up new plants, even ATBs capacity is delayed and expected to contribute from april20 onwards.
Also Mgmt expecting revenue to double in next 3-4 years but that seem to be optimistic on higher end unless they are able to commercialize another product and launch the same

Two drivers of 2x revenue in 3-4 years
Butylphenol - 450 Cr
12-17% growth in rest of the products.

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In the Annual Report for FY19, company said it was “aiming for doubling of revenues over the next 3 years”. At that time, the revenue break-up was broadly as follows:

image

But now, Ms. Vinati says the doubling will be in 3 to 4 years. Taking a liberal view, let us see if the company can add another Rs.1,100 crores by FY23 at least:

Butylphenols

As per management’s guidance, Butlyphenols will add Rs.400-450 crores of revenues per year at full capacity. Let us assume an optimistic Rs.450 crores from this in FY23.

ATBS

Last year, ATBS brought in Rs.638 crore. These prices were at peak, brought about by temporary demand supply mismatch. The mismatch is now gone and prices are coming down. It is difficult to say how much prices will correct, but as per one report ATBS prices were Rs.150 per kg in FY17 and Rs.258 per kg in FY19. Assuming prices correct back to the same level by FY23 (40% decline is not unusual in commodity markets) and the company manages to sell its entire capacity of 40,000 MTPA (50% increase from current level), still the total revenues from ATBS will increase only marginally. When the management says ATBS will grow at 10-15% per year, I assume it is the volumes and not the revenues. Even granting a liberal 5 % p.a. growth in revenues per year from the peak pricing of FY19, ATBS will add at most around Rs.140 crore to the revenues in FY23.

IBB

IBB earned Rs.207 crores in FY19 and management says it will grow at 10-15% per year. Once again taking an optimistic assumption of 15%, IBB will add another Rs.150 crore of revenues in FY23.

In other words, even after taking optimistic scenarios of Butylphenols, ATBS & IBB and giving the company 4 years instead of 3 to double revenues, we get incremental revenues of Rs.740 crores in FY23. That still leaves a hole of another Rs.300 crores to be filled up from other products – which collectively gave just Rs.262 crores in FY19.

This doesn’t seem possible unless the company has another new big scorer up its sleeve. That may be the case, since one would normally not expect the management to make such a forecast without having something specific in mind. However, I cannot say that is the case here, since the management has several times in the past said one thing and changed the goalposts later.

What is certain is that near term outlook is bleak, with ATBS prices correcting and Butylphenol capacities delayed.

(Disc: Invested, booked partial profits recently)

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It’s getting ready n operationalized by Feb,2020.
Yearly revenue of around 400-450 cr so for Feb/March it will be around 50-60 cr ballpark.
That’s what I could understand based on another interview of Vinati sharaf

Is Rs.258 per kg in FY19 is spot market price or blended price? If the additional ATBS capacity which has come-up is from them only (as they mentioned earlier, how true it is?) margin erosion may not be sharp.

Given the valuation and market share position in key products, more tracking is required.

(Disc: Invested, among top three holdings)

Vinati - we need to be really careful. Even promoter sounds very cautious…

PE is super high…

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I feel as if the promoters are giving news bytes every other week. And everytime they will be praised to for their tremendous growth and asked what to expect in future. They may be getting bogged down by the expectations…

The projections and timelines have been changing too frequently.

  • The stance today from promoters has been flattish growth in FY20 from earlier stance of 10% from an even earlier stance of 15% within last couple of months

  • Even the timeline for new facility of butylphenol has been gradually moved from Jun’19 to Oct’19 to Dec’19 to Feb’19

While presently they are being given benefit on account of their past performance, after some point, market might not take this frequent changes in stance positively.

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