ValuePickr: Registered Trademark: Conduct discussions anywhere without violating First (Legal) Principles

Forum Abuse Examples
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PLEASE NOTE ValuePickr (words, logo, byline) is a TRADEMARK under Registration

As a community we are pretty tolerant and usually do not need to intervene. The spontaneous sprouting of city/region based groups is a natural extension of a continuous learning organisation. We welcomed it :slight_smile:

We liked the way some groups went about it with sustained purpose, and did the right things, starting with respecting Intellectual Property including Brand Names/Logos/Usage. And we hoped the other groups will learn from the best examples of such groups - setting some concrete agenda, discussion & time management, more importantly - managing privacy (contact numbers, email ids and the like) issues well.

Time has come to set some Norms, as we see some folks violating legal obligations, and might (unwittingly?) drag ValuePickr (the Brand) into disrepute, and at worst masquerade/misuse the ValuePickr identity - and drag unsuspecting folks into ā€œunmonitorableā€ activities.

Please watch this space for important Updates.
Senior VP Members are all busy preparing for/attending AGMs - but we will come up with concrete measures to enable and support spontaneous-genuine learning activities under Brand-ValuePickr Umbrella

And Request/Discourage/Take Legal Recourse to prevent unauthorised misrepresentation of Brand ValuePickr - to uphold the TRUST & CREDIBILITY - that comes associated. More importantly, we need to ensure the Win-Win open-source Investing Collaboration model pioneered by VP thrives, adapts, multiplies!!

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I felt we are discussing too much of junk on threads. Whenever I go through threads created years ago, itā€™s very difficult to filter out the useful information from that. I think threads should only contain important information which is worth reviewing later. I am trying to avoid thread as much as possible by sending personal messages for advice of some light discussions. As a solution to keep valuepickr clean I have created a whatsapp group and added few people I knew there.
If you wish to be part of that group post your numbers here or whatsapp me. Mine is 9952917263

PS: The group is not named valuepickr. It doesnt even have the word valuepickr in it. and please dont openly post number here, inbox me . Thanks.

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Hi @ishandutta2007, as there is no official VP whatsapp group, I would request you to not label this as ValuePickr Whatsapp group.

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Hey, Nice initiative.
BUT, there is no focus in discussing stocks in a watsapp group. The discussion turns whichever way, and intense, in-depth dissection and analysis (forte of VP) tends to be missing there. As the number of ppl. would be huge at such a group, IMHO, discussions would be short as topics would change way too often.
Also, past information, while sometimes useless in the current scenario, could enhance the understanding of a company most of the times.
P.S.: Spoken from personal experience. Member of VP-Delhi Group.

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Hi Mr Aysush,

Guys here in UAE have already initiated a whatsapp group in the name of ValuepickrUAE as well as Value investors !

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Agree. WhatsApp group will be similar to all ValuePickr threads merged into 1. That will be even more incomprehensible.

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As the major focus of this thread is, to keep VP clean; Iā€™ve relocated the thread to housekeeping.

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contacted you in Whatsapp. Please add me to the group.

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ABOVE (merged posts),

is just an example of what should not be done by any VP or non-VP member.
Its WRONG on first-principle basis, legally, and ethically.

AS A FIST STEP, we are informing everyone there is NO officially sanctioned ValuePickr WhatsApp group. ValuePickr stands for OPENNESS-ACCOUNTABILITY-TRUST and Separating the Wheat from the Chaff. High Quality in-depth discussions and Continuous Learning. Influencing Discussion/Debate direction with self-reinforcing Loops. Some things - that are difficult to achieve in a Messaging medium

WhatsApp is a wonderful collaboration tool, and certainly has its uses. For ValuePickr purposes, we find the web-platform as a much more superior/accountable/controllable/influenceable medium for the larger investment community.

Its a free world. Anyone is free to form any group he or she wants to form in Whatsapp or any other medium.

BUT MAKE SURE, you are not naming/associating Brand ValuePickr with any Whatsapp/Other Messaging/Social Media/Email groups

We have not/will not authorise anyone for the same.
If you know of any such violations, please bring it to our notice.
If you have already taken a step that violates above, kindly RENAME the group, and continue.
Those who continue to violate, please note we have a duty to uphold the ValuePickr Brand Trust & Accountability. We will take whatever measures are necessary for the same, including legal recourse.

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Considered views of the Community are welcome!!

How do we handle the free-flowing spontaneous continuous learning process we live by at VP, and yet maintain some threshold of control over misrepresentations/violations.

Cheers

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Hmm!!

Donā€™t have the bandwidth to do justice to this important topic straightaway, but here are 2 quick top-of-mind suggestions:

1.All interested in already-formed/wanting to form City-based discussion groups should use the VP Forum to introduce themselves well and grow their Trust-Circles (like we had one globally - we lost that in the migration - we should revive that). Think Kolkata group was already doing this the right way.

This records things for posterity, encourages discovery of like-minded folks, enables reaching-out to each other, and sets a self-reinforcing loop in place - for a city-community - to thrive. And you save a whole lot of useful productive time at teh actual discussions - you already know the folks, their strengths and work areas, and interests - to a degree!!

2.Everyone should wake up to the dangers of spraying around your mobile number and email IDs and leaving it public for spammers. The city-region based group initiator/co-ordinator can easily create a 'Closed" google-doc/excel (invitation-only) form, that can be filled up by anyone wishing to join the city-region group, after contacting the initiator to send an Invite (use VP Private Message facility)

We should delete all mobile numbers/email ids that are being freely pasted around :wink:
@pratyushmittal - any easy way of automatic scrubbing/erasing mobile numbers, email IDs from posts??

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Thanks ayush for pointing out the trademark.
Renamed the group not to use the word valuepickr.
quick question, does the city specific groups not use the word valuepickr ?

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Sure thanks for point out .
Removed that group and created a new one with my value investing friends.

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@manish962 : Can you unlock the thread as the group is not named valuepickr?

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  1. No one should use Valuepickr brand and the network except for the rightful owners. The brand & network has a value, which is created over a period of time by people who have worked hard. I think the owners should make their ownership public & express.

  2. The owners should at their discretion use the brand & network, commercially exploit it or use it in all possible legal ways as they deem fit. www.stackoverflow.com is a good example.

  3. Ownership of the forum should be limited to commercial use. Ideas, rules & regulation, moderation should be democratized. The forum could flourish more if all members are involved in framing rules for conduct, discussing them like we discuss a company and moderate them. Moderators should be elected by vote. We may erect a czar at top, when he intervenes no one talks.

  4. Contrary to general belief, I could not understand why would people want to travel & meet (ValuePickr city groups) when they can do all that online. I wish to forecast that these group will not sustain and will fade away with time.

  5. Many people may be looking for an app/mobile website for reason of travel, inaccessibility of desktop etc.

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A few things we should try and do (or avoid):

  • We should ensure that people do not use email / mobile nos in any posts in the city-based threads.
  • If there are whatsapp groups being created, please try to not use ValuePickr in the name.
  • Whatsapp group needs to be moderated closely. Else it ends up generating excessive noise
  • Try to keep the same level of rigour on businesses and stocks, even when discussing in whatsapp groups, as in the forum here
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In light of recent events, I changed Delhi groupā€™s name and logo.

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Agreed to above. In the Mumbai group, we are trying to keep the discussion less on stock specific(for which VP forums are best) and more on stuff not possible on VP such as
*Sharing reports
*Sharing news snippets/long reads of relevance to value investing
*Local specific news such as events, and (in future) AGMs

Regarding the meetups sustainability, I think it will last because
*Wish to meet like minded people aka social proof
*Chance for skill building by presenting and learning new tactics
*Introduction of valuepickr to a wider audience by making registration and activity mandatory for attendance
*Chance to present VP forum ā€˜snapshotsā€™/brief summaries

Having said that, I respect IPR and was not aware it is a registered trademark. Will take care to point out that this is not affiliated with the forum, and will follow any guidelines in this regard

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Some folks continue to ask - why no objection for City ValuePickr groups mushrooming by the week, but different standards for WhatsApp groups. Hereā€™s why - itā€™s not that difficult to appreciate - for those who truly value VP for what it represents!!

City-Region based ValuePickr groups, and WhatsApp groups are two different mediums (beasts :wink:)

One CAN BE transparent, accountable, influenceable - and live by the same Open Source Win-Win Investment Collaboration model/Ethos that makes VP what it is today! What you ARE and LIVE BY is transparent to the larger investment community - if you commit to capture back the Learnings for the benefit of the larger community - with No Expectations! Once thus committed, all your ACTIONS are in public eye, and for posterity (good, the bad, and the ugly). Naturally, the MEDIUM makes one more ACCOUNTABLE.

By contrast, the Other medium CAN BE a Beast!! (Pardon me). Itā€™s NOT ACCOUNTABLE, you can get away with anything, itā€™s non-transparent, oversights are almost impossible, and unless members are extremely committed and disciplined, there is huge amount of NOISE, very little sporadic SIGNALs!! Some would say, over-use of this medium is detrimental to sustainable investment learning (90% of groups).

Given that City-Region based groups can be accountable, there are some passionate folks who initiated and are spending lot of time and effort administering/structuring agenda/discussions/guidelines and member contributions, such initiatives do have VP blessings!! THEY ARE MONITORABLE - for living up to the VP Ethos/Standards.

If the same ethos are lived-by city-region based VP Groups, ValuePickr brand extension and support IS AVAILABLE :slight_smile: (not for use on a City-WhatsApp group) for authorised offline-group use.

So far, ValuePickr Delhi group Initiator (Utkarsh Pandey) was the one group that reached out and asked for the support and permission - and duly received that. We are quite sure other city-region based groups will follow suit - since these were all started for a good ACCOUNTABLE public good cause, official VP blessings will be sought and given. And then MONITORED :slight_smile: via folks who take up the responsibility.

Right Incentives can be created for Continuous Learning/Compliance :wink:

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