Page industries

This is how I think about stocks: find good businesses and find what would be a good price.

Page is a good business, but the problem for a retail investor is the valuation. So, I suppose a discussion about that should be more or less fruitful.

I strongly believe, for a retail investor or a trader an automated system won’t do the job, because success depends not on automated analysis or a secret proprietory discovery of price-range; Success fully depends on ones psychological conditioning.

I am tracking a few companies and post about them in their individual threads. But for the most part, no stock price seems agreeable. In fact, with Nifty PE being 27, I may be asking for too much right now.

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Well I didn’t mean to say one should automate it. I was trying to convey that, if it were so easy to value companies based on a few things like Current PE, Historical PE, Trailing growth etc, then anyone could value it by automating.

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Quite amazed by the wealth created by Page over the past decade and also by its financial statements. Recently started tracking this company.

I think Page’s next wave of growth would come from Jockey Juniors.
If one listens to management’s commentary in Q4FY19 and Q1FY20, the management sounds a lot more exciting when they speak about the juniors segment. Some phrases used by them are “see ourselves twenty years back”, “deja vu”, “repeating the story of adults innerwear”, “pushing aggressively”, “hiring manpower”, “separate distribution network”.

Trying to estimate the market size Page can capture in this business. Page sells 10 crore pieces for each man. Assuming 6 pieces per man per year, their customer base is about 1.6 crore men. This number is close to their 20% men market share among 13 crore customers (0.2 x 13 x 0.5 = 1.3 crores). I think it should be a fair to assume that all these men would be happy to buy Jockey brand for their children.
For each adult male, we have about 0.8 children (boys+girls) according to Statista. https://www.statista.com/statistics/271315/age-distribution-in-india/
That gives about 1 crore children whom Jockey can capture from existing customer households. According to management, their total market size is about 1.55 crore children.

The interesting thing is that the ticket size for these products is higher than innerwear.
Please go through the products here: https://www.jockeyindia.com/kids/products
Most of them are about 300 Rs to 400 Rs, higher than a typical innerwear.
Even more interesting point is the number of products Jockey can potentially sell for each kid. Management assumes they sell 6 products per each man. This won’t be the same for each kid as this includes regular outerwear as well. Another funny interesting thing is that kids can be mischievous and spoil / tear their clothes leading to higher sales for kids-wear companies.

Potential market size from households which already have men wearing Jockey = 1 crore (children count) * 300 (realisation per product) * 8 (#tops + #shorts per year) = 2400 crores. I hope the assumptions made are conservative enough. Please budge in if you think something is off.
I assumed only 4 tops and 4 shorts per year because I’m not sure yet if they will have such strong brand recall in this segment as well. So I’m assuming they will buy products from other players too. Otherwise, a typical kid from Jockey-affordable households would have 10 tops + 10 shorts + 6 inner-wear. And the best part is their shelves would keep rolling clothes continuously as the children keep age-ing every year.
To put things in perspective, TTM revenues of the company are 2900 crores.

Coming to competition, there is no pan-India player in this segment. Most of the fashion brands in the country are focussed on men or women, but not on kids. The kids-wear in India is mostly sold by regional players. This can turn out to be a strong niche for the company if executed well. The company plans to price their kids-wear at 15% to 20% higher than existing regional brands.

Important challenge is that this business brings lots of designs into the inventory and hence some of it can remain unsold. I’m not sure how picky parents are while purchasing clothes for their children to assess this further. VP-ers with kids aged b/w 3-12, please comment from your first-hand experience of buying clothes for your children :slight_smile:

Also, this kind of hints us that the fast-line growth story for adult inner-wear in Jockey is close to end i.e. it will grow only at terminal growth rate (i.e. GDP growth rate?). One simple question is why would a rational person look very excited for a new growth avenue (Juniors) if you can see a huge growth in your existing avenues (inner-wear)? And why would you start looking for a new avenue in the first place?

However, for this story to play out, it would take some time for them to create a sizeable base. The boys segment was launched just two years ago, girls segment launched one year ago. For this to become a bit big and create a meaningful impact on the top-line would take some time. Until then, we have to keep waiting / tracking. If anyone aware of its top-line contribution, request you to share.

@People who have attended AGM, request you to share management commentary on the Juniors business.

Disclosure: No holdings. Started tracking recently.

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I would guess its the mother who is the decision maker for buying clothes for the children.

For men innerwear there was not much variants but for womenwear, childrenwear there are lot of variants needed and they would be very demanding set of customers… need to quickly adapt to or set new trends, design etc. Not an easy market as men innerwear were. Generally I feel men are loyal to their brands in fashion, grooming etc categories but I see women quickly switch brands based on word of mouth, better VFM, whatever is the trend …

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Is it just me or the case with everyone, the quality of innerwear from Jockey (briefs especially) has come down greatly over the last 1 year. Each brief costing >250, I beleive quality deterioration is a very very bad sign for this once great company. The tearing part which was earlier mentioned for kids, I’m experiencing within 3 months of purchase, that too with proper care.

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I submit that I do not agree on quality of product going down.

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Totally agree , I had shifted to HANES due to this but then the blokes there decided to change the design and put in pockets.
So I am back to jockey but due a different reason.

During my recent visit to a Jockey store I was looking to buy for son, but they were not stocking anything for children. Stock was only for men and women.

My recent visit to Jockey store feedback in Vijayawada:

  • Sales are slow and down, which is the lowest as far as the sales guy remembers, may be in the last 5/6 years
  • Saw some kids segment and checked about, how is it and how are sales.His feedback is less or very few variety, women and kids require more variety
  • so Page has to introduce more variety to penetrate into this segment.
  • I observed lot of T-Shirts and track pants varieties available now for men, brought couple of V-neck T-Shirts.

My expectations is this quarter also degrowth may happen.

Disclosure : Not invested. Looking for lower levels to enter.

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I’ve seen quality going down in some and also going up in a few segments.
I think the ones where jockey gives a 3 in one or 2 in one boxes are going down. Individual lounge wear and active wear have upped the quality along with MRP.

The Stock is trading at a PE of 53, which has an expectations of a growth of 15% factored in.

Its current TTM Sales is 2872.
March ending Sales was 2852.

There is a wide mismatch.

I used to hold Page stocks till Dec 2014. I sold out and moved into other stocks. Having said that my wife and I use Jockey products. The quality of the cheaper men’s cotton underwear has gone down for sure. But they have launched some underwears with blended fabrics and their quality is excellent. I stopped buying the low quality one. The blended ones are also cotton but there is some mix of other yarns. But the modals, polyamides etc are no less comfortable compared to the 100% cotton ones. So I think they are trying to move people to the higher priced products.

I think Jockey has separate outlets for kids. Did you check out?

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From a stock point of view sold all my holdings in Jockey (about 33% of my total holdings then) in Dec 2014 and moved primarily into HUL and Hawkins. I later sold off Hawkins. Anyway HUL has sightly outperformed Page since then and has given more dividends. Those who sold Page at 30000+ were really lucky and those who bought Page at that price are really unlucky.

Hi Amit,

A rookie question: How did you calculate 15% growth expectation from 53 PE?

There have been a lot of discussions on this thread, but lately for past year and half investors have been discussing how the growth for this stock is pegged at 15% which is how they justified buying it at high PEs.

For learning vicariously, I was wondering how an investor should react when he sees the growth stop, temporarily or not.

I am not sure whether it makes sense to sell it now as it has fallen 50% from the top already. On the other hand, the PE is still 53. He would get companies with 5 to 10% growth at lower valuations, and more upside.

Just wanted to hear what an investor in Page Industries would comment.

Page has done better than its peers which degrew. This shows its competitive advantages are still there. The growth of the overall sector has slowed down. Unless you believe the Indian market has saturated and will stagnate at this level, Page’s story remains intact.

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Haven’t seen in our city

On long term charts , it seems to be reversing from 38.2 retracement. The monthly candle turning exactly around previous strong resistance .
Keep an eye. Strongly feel should be a good entry point for long term holders…

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