Orient paper and industries

Contingent liabilities of ~400Cr are also lying in the BS though original amount was less than 10Cr way back in late 1990s. This liability was on account of water tax and shall form part of paper division only.

Electrical division - in my view demand situation is bad at the moment because of demonetization and its after effects. real estate activity is the prime growth driver for fans and that shall remain on low growth or degrowth mode for 1-2 years. Moving to electrical appliances- Company was anyways struggling to make its name in this vertical despite having spent huge amount on branding exercise (~40-50Cr). With the impending slowdown in consumer space looks like tough times lay ahead for the company. I have no idea how long it will take for the demand to revive in the consumer electrical space but one poor consequence is going to be increased competition in this otherwise very competitive market. Margins and WC shall definitely come under pressure.

Best
Rajat

FYI, Annual Report 2016-17


Any idea when that will happen?

thanks Sujay.
here’s my note from the demerger valuation report-
Details for orient paper demerger.
fy15-16 revenue split
electricals-1301.83 cr
PAPers-518.53 CR

total-1802.3 cr

EBITDA-
electricals-90.78 cr
paper-26 cr
Net Profit-45 cr for electricals. loss of-22 cr for paper.

management looking at 25% dividend payment for demerged companies to continue.

1 Like

hi all,
taking a cue from recent history of gap between NCLT approval and record date, suggest to explore tube investments for demerger.
tube investment demerger has been approved by NCLT in july. the record date of demerger will be 28 aug. Refer dated noted below from BSE announcements for Omkar, PTL and Grasim plz 05 Jun 2017 Press Release Company Update Press Release issued in connection with approval from the Hon`ble NCLT,Bench at Ahemdabad for the Composite Scheme of Arrangement between the Aditya Birla Nuvo Limited and Grasim Industries Limited and Aditya Birla Financial Services Limited and their respective shareholders and creditors Grasim Industries Limited informed to Stock Exchanges about the fixing 20th July 2017 as the Record Date-2 pursuant to Part III of the Composite Scheme of Arrangement between Aditya Birla Nuvo Limited and Grasim Industries Limited and Aditya Birla Financial Services Limited (now known as Aditya Birla Capital Limited) and their respective shareholders and creditors. PTL- NCLT approval 2 march record date-23 march Omkar speciality NCLT approval 13 april Lasa lab record date-13 june

What would be the value of their total land and property holdings? I am asking about their investment real estate not their factories. They happen to have lot of real estate holding in Kolkata and other places as I understand. and all that will stay with the Paper business.

oreint electricals as a a whole depends on its bread and butter and ie orient fan division.Now running into my personal experience I believe that the fan runs with the help of fan regulators. Recently in our household there was a problem wih the fan regulator. As a result we changed it (our fan is a twenty year old strongly living crompon greaves).We changed the fan regulator and the problem still persisted. Now coming to the point should I blame the fan regulator as the culprit or the slowly running crompton greaves in this case?

Guys your views are welcome.

disc: invested 10 shares for tracking purpose.Yet to invest heavily

No disrespect but…Should you not be in some other forum? Like “Fan Pickr” or something?

3 Likes

Girish. Haha. ROTFL.
Sorry moderator. Allow us a laugh. Please delete if unacceptable.

Don’t you guys try to get the point I’m trying to make. However excellent researched fans maybe designed by the company still it depends on the fan regulator that controls it. They have to make the fan regulator in order to provide the best fan.(i.e the point I’m proposing) An apple iphone is and will be always better than the X number of android phones flooding the market or X number of windows flooding the market just because of the simple reason Apple owns both the hardware and software of its products and thus controlling the entire consumer experience. The result is 95 % or greater consumer satisfaction…

https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-fan-speed-regulator-work/answer/Noble-Jose-1?srid=5Y4v
This explains the problem of the fan regulators.So the best working fan requires the best fan regulator.The inference is Orient Electric division needs to focus more on the electronic side of manufacturing the switches and the components related to it to make to the sustainable disruption along the lines of The Innovators Dilemma by Clayton M Christensen

The Fifteen Points of Philip Fisher

POINT 1. DOES THE COMPANY HAVE PRODUCTS OR SERVICES WITH SUFFICIENT MARKET
POTENTIAL TO MAKE POSSIBLE A SIZABLE INCREASE IN SALES FOR AT LEAST
SEVERAL YEARS?
POINT 2. DOES THE MANAGEMENT HAVE A DETERMINATION TO CONTINUE TO DEVELOP
PRODUCTS OR PROCESSES THAT WILL STILL FURTHER INCREASE TOTAL SALES
POTENTIALS WHEN THE GROWTH POTENTIALS OF CURRENTLY ATTRACTIVE
PRODUCT LINES HAVE LARGELY BEEN EXPLOITED?
POINT 3. HOW EFFECTIVE ARE THE COMPANY’S RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT EFFORTS IN
RELATION TO ITS SIZE?
POINT 4. DOES THE COMPANY HAVE AN ABOVE-AVERAGE SALES ORGANIZATION?
POINT 5. DOES THE COMPANY HAVE A WORTHWHILE PROFIT MARGIN?
POINT 6. WHAT IS THE COMPANY DOING TO MAINTAIN OR IMPROVE PROFIT MARGINS?
POINT 7. DOES THE COMPANY HAVE OUTSTANDING LABOR AND PERSONNEL RELATIONS?
POINT 8. DOES THE COMPANY HAVE OUTSTANDING EXECUTIVE RELATIONS?
POINT 9. DOES THE COMPANY HAVE DEPTH TO ITS MANAGEMENT?
POINT 10. HOW GOOD ARE THE COMPANY’S COST ANALYSIS AND ACCOUNTING CONTROLS?
POINT 11. ARE THERE OTHER ASPECTS OF THE BUSINESS, SOMEWHAT PECULIAR TO THE
INDUSTRY INVOLVED, WHICH WILL GIVE THE INVESTOR IMPORTANT CLUES AS TO
HOW OUTSTANDING THE COMPANY MAY BE IN RELATION TO ITS COMPETITION?
POINT 12. DOES THE COMPANY HAVE A SHORT-RANGE OR LONG-RANGE OUTLOOK IN
REGARD TO PROFITS?
POINT 13. IN THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE WILL THE GROWTH OF THE COMPANY REQUIRE
SUFFICIENT EQUITY FINANCING SO THAT THE LARGER NUMBER OF SHARES THEN
OUTSTANDING WILL LARGELY CANCEL THE EXISITNG STOCKHOLDERS’ BENEFIT
FROM THIS ANTICIPATED GROWTH?
POINT 14. DOES THE MANAGEMENT TALK FREELY TO INVESTORS ABOUT ITS AFFAIRS WHEN
THINGS ARE GOING WELL BUT “CLAM UP” WHEN TROUBLES AND
DISAPPOINTMENTS OCCUR?
POINT 15. DOES THE COMPANY HAVE A MANAGEMENT OF UNQUESTIONABLE INTEGRITY?
Source: Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits and Other Writings, Philip A. Fisher

P.S : A fan pickr will always want to own the most valuable fan irrespective of whether it is practically available or theoritically available. (Refer point 11)

Guys still your views are always welcome

2 Likes

Could you please try to post in small caps? All large capital letters are impossible to read specially on 4-5 inch screen.

Thanks

1 Like

Dear Cathene, now let’s be honest. We had some fun with your post. Let me me honest again, it’s a blessing that you put a smile on some faces. It’s a blessing not a burden. Let me be honest again, I have been ridiculed, you will be too… this is a tough crowd and they won’t let you be till you learn as much as possible about investing and they will relentlessly troll you till they make you capable of trolling others :slight_smile:
I love this forum for the help not in the expected but in the required way.
Now, your questions are great, but you must answer them too… so what are your answers to the Philip Fisher’s questions?
Post them below the question and you will be answering to all here but more to yourself. These guys don’t stop till they help you grow.
You are smart, now answer your own questions.
I will be and most others will be proud to see you challenge yourself and grow with us.
I grew a little bit much because of this forum.
Don’t be disheartened. Be happy we will mock you and when the time comes, we may be in awe of you.
Do continue to engage. Best.
PS: I have given you the first like of the thousands to come. So I could say I was the first!

4 Likes

hi
any news on nclt order on demerger?

regards

Next hearing on 8th november

Any link here sir? please share it.

Here you go

http://nclt.gov.in/status/kolkata_Court_I_Status_List_11.10.2017.pdf

1 Like

Extract From 2016-17 Annual Report

In Fan Sub Division Planning to introduce1300 mm Hugger
Fan,1200 mm Aeroquiet with BLDC, 1200mm Revamped Entry
level Decorative Fans , High Speed Decorative fan, 1300mm
Aerofoil design fan, Anti Dust concept, Low Dia concept fan and
Smart fan with unique features like Motion sensor, Temperature
and Humidity sensor to control fan speed, Fan control through
Remote and Mobile phone, etc.
In Lighting Sub Division planning to install automatic packing
machine in LED bulb Production and production of 14w and 23w
LED bulb to compete intensively in the market

Disc : Investing & Accumulating
My views may be biased. Do your own research

1 Like

Hi All,

Demerger Order is Reserved as per the NCLT’s 8th Nov hearing.

http://nclt.gov.in/status/kolkata_Court_I_Status_List_08.11.2017.pdf

Thanks,
Vinaya

Hi All,
Date 12th Jan 2018 has been fixed as Record date to Demerge Orient Electric from Orient Paper industries.
http://www.moneycontrol.com/stocks/reports/orient-paperindustries-schemearrangement-10243421.html

I am invested in Orient Paper. Planning to add some more if valuations are reasonable. Can someone clarify if record date is 12 Jan then which is the last day to buy Orient paper so one can have both Orient paper and Orient electric share.

12-Jan 2018 is the Record date . 11 Jan 2018 is Ex Date. 10 th Jan is the last day to buy Orient paper so that one can get both Orient paper and Orient electric share. If you buy the share on 10th , the shares will come to your account on 12th ( T+2 ). On 11th the stock price will go down because those who buys on 11th wont get Orient Electric Shares. Good Luck.