Need for KYC to be enforced when Forum Abuse is detected

Forum Abuse Examples
1

We need to become stricter in enforcing KYC when forum abuse is flagged/suspected/detected.

We understand the legitimate constraints of many industry professionals. We have allowed folks to use generic/pseudonyms for their display names and/or hide email details, and so on.

In the earlier carefree days of VP infancy in 2010 and 2011, we were quite okay with this. But from 2012 when VP started seeing rise in Membership and a modicum of TRUST building up, we also started seeing examples of Forum Abuse - completely one-sided agenda-pushing posts to well-disguised agenda-pushing.

Our seniors and well-wishers alerted us to this and sensitised us to the great responsibility we carry in safeguarding the interest of newbies and learners who come to VP with a lot of Trust and Admiration. They must be saved from being taken for a ride.

Since then you must have noticed we have put in place
a) a stricter KYC norm - we normally do not allow pseudonym registrations.We ask the guys to re-register with complete identity details (which will be hidden and for Admin use only, if needed), but they can choose display names of their choice and not disclose emails and so on
b) we have made it mandatary for prolific contributors to any business thread to provide disclosures at time of entry/exit
c) we have made a mandatory Code of Conduct for those who work on Management Q&As, Stock Story or BQ & MQ Sheets - to also provide disclosures in conformance with SEBI Analyst guidelines - no transactions in prior 30 days of publication of any of these influencing pieces (even though these are not research reports. We have also made it mandatory for these folks to disclose quantum and recency of holding

All these so that we can protect the newbies and learners who may be naively trusting, and may not be aware of the usual pitfalls/mal-practices that are rampant in our markets. VP being an open forum we cannot ensure that bad apples will not threaten the whole credibility/reputation of the wonderful platform and community that we have today.

It’s been our experience that whenever there is foul-play or suspicion of foul-play, the best deterrent has been to check the KYC of the alleged offender, arrange for a photograph of the person to be uploaded, arrange for a senior VP Member/Moderator to do a face-to-face interaction with the person to hear his side of the story, assess and take a considered decision as appropriate.

If there is no ulterior motive and if there is nothing to hide, maybe a mistake or two has been made without understanding implications severity - usually folks have agreed to our suggestions and things have been resolved to mutual satisfaction.

Sometimes these measures also do not work !
Will start sharing some examples of such instances - as it becomes important to ensure there is no one at VP who does not understand why establishing KYC is important for Team VP - its to ensure the very survivability of VP Community - the Trust and Credibility - it has come to be associated with.

As a policy we do not want to engage in “public shaming” ever - unless we find gross abuse/gross defiance that just cannot be left unaddressed/should not be left unaddressed. Rather such instances should be made an example of to ensure the most effective deterrence - folks will know such activities on their part will lead to certain consequences/withdrawal of privileges

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2

Hi Manav,

Your profile has been flagged up by system over past 2 months repeatedly - unnatural, unerring focus on a single business Shalibhadra Finance thread.

In order to understand you better, we need you to update your profile, ASAP

  1. Upload a profile pic
  2. Add/Confirm your First Name/Last Name Details
  3. Mention your City

Post this being completed, a Senior VP Member will like to do a one-one interaction with you in person. Please treat this message with respect and respond.

Failure to acknowledge Admin messages are frowned upon at VP
Rgds

1 Like
3

Fine,

You’re Al Pacino, I will upload Robert De Niro’s picture as a profile picture

Cheers

I am from Delhi

Phone - 9717262392

4

As anticipated, you fail to take the message with the seriousness it deserves. A phone number is not enough. We need to establish your identity. Please upload your actual profile pic and confirm your first name/last name.

Failure to do as requested, will place your account under suspension.
Rgds

5

Suspend me buddy

There are enough people without profile pics floating around, I do not like being singled out

6

You are being singled out because of 2 reasons
A. You are the only one (in over 2000+ members who post at VP) who posts on only one single thread - Shalibhadra Finance thread

B. Folks have complained about your private messages, sharing phone numbers, doing detailed calls - doing what they call - peddling your agenda on this stock, citing high-profile names investing in it, and the usual

We want to establish your version.
Rgds

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7

You have access to my account, check all the private messages I sent, they were mostly on sugar

I contacted one person on shalibhadra when he messaged me first

If folks are complaining, well, nobody wins against the folks

8

We value the contribution of every member, including yours.
We are sorry, when system has flagged deviant behaviour and complaints have been raised about you, the ONLY way forward is a face-to-face interaction with a Senior VP Member/Moderator, after you have updated authentic details.

We repeat, if you do not comply with request to establish your identity and agree to a face-to-face meeting with Senior VP Member, we have to suspend/terminate your account.

You have until 10 pm today, Thursday 5 November, to comply
Rgds

2 Likes
9

You mean to say I will have to travel for the face to face meeting?

10

actually,just delete my account

it was a mistake to join on my part, you have a fab forum, I am not upto the mark frankly

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As mentioned, a Senior VP Member/Moderator will visit you. We have Seniors in every City. If you are in Delhi, someone will visit you in Delhi and have a face to face interaction, hear your version, and recommend next steps.

It’s as simple as that. We cant fathom why is that so difficult to comply.
You do not even bother to share the reasons

1 Like
12

note to moderator - delete my account

I do not want to give my version, I do not want somebody else deciding the next steps, I do not want to meet anybody

13

Thanks for your response.
That settles the case for us. Your response leaves us no leeway.
We regret losing you as a Member. Our KYC norms are very strict on Members who continue to prefer to operate from anonymity when their actions are clearly deviant/flagged.

Your account is being suspended. Might be terminated after 30 days, if this decision is not reviewed.

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14

Account is Suspended
Clicking on Member’s Profile will show up the reasons for suspension.
(Scroll on Shailbhadra thread Shalibhadra Finance - microcap NBFC, growing steadily to ManavBansal)

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15

Abhishek Basumallick (our valued Moderator and Forum Watchdog) puts it, there are “patterns” we should spot, and be very wary

  1. Extremely long-winded Title with tall claims
  2. Absence of substantive merits in the investment hypothesis, but lot of hype
  3. Very little focus on the RISKS side, may be completely ignored
  4. Long winded explaination to queries - building up on the hyperbole
  5. Irresponsible, definitive, motherhood statements start being sprayed

Newbies please note - the moment the Title is long-winding with Superlatives, you are better off-ignoring. Someone who is exploring a stock idea will never do this - because his verdict is not out in the open, he is curious, he is more interested probably in finding out counter-arguments and holes in his investment hypothesis.

Only someone with a agenda to push his stock will do this. Couple this with writing only on this a micro micro cap, then contacting members, getting their email IDs and phone numbers, and peddling the stock citing HNI big names that have invested in this stock, started giving the game away

Member messaged folks with usual discussion opener being

My Intro - I am an ex student of Sanjay and ex collegue of Chetan Parikh and Anil Goel
I am based in Noida and run some businesses and manage our family investment portfolio
If you are ok with it we can connect on email - xxxxxxxxxxxx@gmail.com or call me on xxxxxxxxxx

Newbies beware of the patterns and methodology. This may again be repeated

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Thanks, it s a great step taken pro actively by @adminph2.

Off late I have noticed few more such threads with micro micro caps with one guys answering all queries.
Some of us just ignore it, guessing the obvious stuff in these games.

I think this action, by bringing it in public notice has helped in

  1. New members and many non members who just read posts and are easy traps to be aware of such traps/misleads.
  2. It also helps 2000 odd members to make them aware, and it our responsibility also to flag such issue with admin/Seniors etc. if someone smells such stuff.

I also think disclosures ( holding/non holding) should be also made mandatory for every posts for all members.

Cheers
Thanks for making it a great forum.

4 Likes
17

It would help a great deal if the hypothesis (if it is pushing an agenda) is flattened with a few sharp questions from the Valuepickr veterans. I understand that they are not obligated to do this, but, would be a great help to the larger community.

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18

decent efforts taken by VP to prevent misuse, but unfortunately it won’t yield much results, in forums like this on the internet, it is very easy for people to create number of virtual identities and push an agenda, but nevertheless, it is good to know that people are watching and taking action

i had to message Donald because my registration couldn’t be completed and it was due to some system issue and i actually thought that VP was “selective” in letting members join the community, i’m happy that’s not the case

no matter the amount of warning, people (guests/members) flocking to this forum in search of the next multi-bagger or hot stock will fall prey to some motivated agendas

caveat emptor

19

Thanks Prem for your well-meaning suggestion.

In the past this hasn’t worked
a) if one writes a para with a valid objection, they respond by writing a page, after apologising in advance for a long-winded answer (at evidence here too)
b) these guys have all the time and patience at their disposal to swamp you every time. A balanced discussion becomes impossible - for the devils advocate doesn’t have endless time to spar, nor is there compelling interest - because anyways things don’t add up in such scrips - what can you argue about the track record of a microcap with 15 Cr annual business- they can use data to very good effect, never mind that the sample size of that data makes it completely unreliable; end result others give up; mature investors stay away anyway; the novice to greedy guys may get swayed …there will be lots of oohs and aahs about how much patience, how much selfless work, what wonderful analysis …and might get trapped
c) it’s not always micro caps. Sometimes this is done much more professionally for typical pump n dump. There will be some genuine strengths in the business. Endless hype with global stats penetration levels will be cited in defence; once in 30 posts risks will be re-iterated to give semblance of a balance. But the style is the same - genuine objections will be swamped - there is a organised gang supporting with data points, old reports, vomiting the same 10 points with different slants endlessly. Point is nobody has/can have the energy to match/counter these guys

Our experience has taught us it is futile and a waste of time to counter. Its more effective to educate everyone, empower everyone to watch out for these patterns and encourage flagging. If we suspect multiple patterns playing out, the best Deterrent and Expose is to immediately invoke KYC, while still giving the benefit of doubt for inadvertent mistakes, and be willing to give a decent hearing.

Usually they fall in line immediately :wink:

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20

Some back-channel communications reached VP Core Team - effectively saying there’s no hanky panky on our part be reassured. Just didn’t like/want/appreciate being answerable to anyone!!

That’s actually at the heart of the problem. As suspected, these type of folks don’t seem to recognise the VP ethos/culture

a) We have seen that couldn’t care less attitude in some new comers too (who thankfully do not have such mal-intention) who display similar arrogance and abrasive behaviour towards other members, moderators and Admin.
It may be perfectly acceptable behaviour in chaotic unaccountable MC type forums, and may even be the norm. No one owes anything to the Community, there is no accountability, consequently it’s a free-for-all; there is no trust or credibility attributable to such platforms
b) VP on the other hand is all about caring and sharing and nurturing, playing win-win, always being polite, always respecting difference of opinion and contrary views because real value addition to ourselves happen when we can listen well.

VP is all about Accountability, Credibility and Trust. You and me and every member is privileged to have equal rights. Anyone can post on anything by adhering to some guidelines. It’s a privilege to be able to air your views or share your work on such a platform. Today when you post from such a platform with 10000+ registered members, you are using brand VP - known for its high-quality discussions, and the highly acknowledged structured communication pieces like Mgmt Q&A, Stock Story, Field Work, BQ & MQ exercises.

You are using the Platform’s Trust and its Reach, aren’t you? How can you take this privilege for granted. Assume zero Accountability ?? You don’t want to be answerable to anyone ???

In the views of Hitesh Patel, VP Top Contributor & Moderator, “the way these folks show such scant regard for Admin/Moderators, they seem to think they are doing VP a favour, by posting here”!

Whereas, it should be the other way round? Food for thought for every Member??

13 Likes