MTAR Technologies - A wager on innovation meeting economies of scale

Hi everyone! This is the first topic that I am creating on this forum. Hope you all like the content.

I have attached a .pdf of my work to this message as well.

2023.03 - MTAR Technologies – A wager on innovation meeting economies of scale.pdf (871.4 KB)

A Brief History
MTAR Technologies was formed in 1970. The company develops and manufactures a wide range of mission critical precision components, with close tolerances (5-10 microns), through its precision machining, assembly and specialised fabrication facilities, for applications in the nuclear, space, defence and clean energy sectors in India and abroad. MTAR was incorporated on November 11, 1999 upon the conversion of the erstwhile partnership firm into a private limited company.

The company has contributed in a big way to the Indian civilian nuclear power program and the Indian space program. Old-timers at MTAR recall India’s former President and ‘Missile Man’ A.P.J. Abdul Kalam telling his team during his DRDO days: “If nothing is getting done, go to that Reddy company at Hyderabad.”

In 2007, Blackstone invested $65 million in the firm for an estimated 25 percent stake. According to Mathew Cyriac, an ex-Blackstone MD, "MTAR is very unique in what it offers. The 50 year old company has built certain differentiated technical capabilities which is not available with many companies in India or globally. It was an undermanaged business and I knew that could be fixed. MTAR is a family owned business but has swiftly professionalised the management in the last few years.” He continued, “We made a lot of changes to streamline operations, improve productivity and reduce cost. We also focused on driving the export mix of the business. We also introduced performance management processes through monthly MIS and continuous reviews,” making it clear that the emphasis was on performance management and optimization. As you read this, it should be clear that a company that has both deep innovation capabilities as well as financial discipline is sure to make waves.

The company went public in March 2021, with an IPO that had both an offer-for-sale and a fresh issue component. The IPO was oversubscribed by 200 times, which led to a stellar listing. As a public company, the company made a series of announcements that has the given the market pause.

For example, in December 2022, the company announced plans to design and manufacture its own two-stage low earth orbit satellite launch vehicle (expected by FY26). Additionally, in February 2023, during its Q3FY23 earnings call, after previously guiding for an FY23 revenue growth of 55-60%, the company now plans to close the financial year with ₹575-600 cr of revenue for FY23, compared to ₹322 cr in FY22. At the lower end of this revised guidance, annual revenue growth would be 78.6%. Finally, I wish to highlight an interview on Zee Business in January 2023 (scroll down to the sources section for the link) where the MD, P Srinivas Reddy mentioned that the company would comfortably be able to grow its revenue by 5 times over the next 5 years, and that the sky was the limit.

Business Overview
To summarize, MTAR Technologies was established in 1970, and it is in the business of manufacturing various machine equipment, assemblies, sub-assemblies, and spare parts for the clean energy, nuclear, space, aerospace, defence and other engineering industries.

In its Q3FY23 Investor Presentation, it highlights how it has a wide portfolio of critical and differentiated engineered products with a healthy mix of developmental and volume-based production, customized to meet the specific requirements of its customers.

The company is well known for its clean energy products and services. However, it also caters to the nuclear, space, defence and other industries. While these other industries are important to MTAR Technologies, I can foresee a scenario where the contribution from clean energy continues to increase over time. I fail to understand why some business news articles categorize MTAR as a defence company. As the breakdown below will convey, it is primarily a supplier to the clean energy industry.

In the clean energy division, the company provides the following:
• Solid oxide fuel cell assemblies (hot boxes) – generate power from natural gas
• Hydrogen boxes – generate power from hydrogen
• Electrolyzers – generate hydrogen from water (green H2 if powered by a renewable source of energy)
• Shafts, specialized tubing and support structures for the hydropower industry

In its nuclear division, the company offers:
• Fuel machining heads, used in the loading and unloading of fuel bundles in a reactor
• Coolant channel assemblies (sealing plug, shielding plug, end fittings)
• Drive mechanisms, critical for the regulation and shutting down of a nuclear reaction
• Grid plates, bridges and columns, cover beams, and deck plate assemblies

In the space and defence division, the company provides:
• Base shroud assemblies and air frames (used in Agni missiles)
• Aircraft components (main gear boxes, shafts, control manifolds, etc.)
• Ball screws, water lubricated bearings, and roller screws
• Satellite launch vehicle components (cryogenic engines, liquid propulsion rocket engines, command modules)

I really love how the company not only highlights existing customers, but proudly showcases potential customers that it’s having ongoing discussions with. In addition, I like how the company has a broad and growing base of customers. While a lot of its clean energy business does depend on Bloom Energy, I see this changing over the next few years (explained in a later section).


Initial Investment Rationale
When I first discovered this company, back in August 2022, it didn’t take much for me to buy some shares, at a price of ₹1422. I saw a lot of promise back then, and below I will list the reasons I documented back then to justify the purchase.

• Company is trading at over a 40% discount from all-time highs
• Reasonable valuation – ~71x P/E and ~13x Sales (considering growth prospects)
• Respectable ROCE of ~16%
• Precision engineering – lots of expertise and IP
• Critical sectors – clean energy, space, defence and nuclear energy
In my personal opinion, the most upside is in clean energy (fuel cells, H2 boxes, electrolyzers/green H2), not to mention the highest potential for economies of scale to kick in, even though a lot of people I know seem to care the most about the defence business
• Clarity around the revenue breakdown across the different divisions, and I appreciate the overall order book visibility
• Promoter is media friendly
• Just 30-35 cr of capex being spent to ease some bottlenecks. Other than that, existing assets can operate at a much higher capacity
• Management guidance of 55-60% revenue growth in FY23 is no joke
• Negligible net debt

Financial Profile
I have shared a profit and loss summary for the last five financial years below.

Also, I am sharing a snapshot from screener.in below.

Do note how the earnings and sales multiples came down from 71 and 13 respectively, since August 2022. I expect that robust revenue growth, while maintaining profit margins, will make multiples trend lower over the near and medium term.

Another thing about this company that investors will really appreciate is the order book visibility. Management does a good job of breaking things down so shareholders have a clear idea about the revenue outlook. As an example, see below for the Q3FY23 order book update.

Additionally, I want to compare revenue figures with order book values. The relationship ought to be clear to a reader.

The company is aiming to have an FY23 closing order book value of ₹1200 cr. However, do bear in mind that the company initially had a closing order book target of ₹1000 cr before reporting Q2FY23 results, after which the target was revised upwards.

I wanted to take a quick look at historical capex, which was as follows:
• FY18 – ₹2.1 cr
• FY19 - ₹27.3 cr
• FY20 - ₹11.9 cr
• FY21 - ₹22.8 cr
• FY22 - ₹91.1 cr

The clear upward trend, which makes sense given how the company is investing in capacity is a good sign, as long as it doesn’t move up linearly with revenue going forward. I got some context from the latest earnings call. Management mentioned that about ₹80 cr of capex was incurred in the first 9 months of FY23, with ₹72 cr of CWIP, with no final decision made on when to expense that amount. Capex in FY24 is expected to be lower in the ₹50-60 cr range.

Additionally, during the call, it was good to hear that the company’s internal R&D costs are not expected to grow linearly as the company pursues opportunities in new domains. Management intends to leverage the capabilities of the existing team as much as possible.

In a business like MTAR’s, I expected there to be a lot of working capital requirements. Even then, I did not like seeing 287 working capital days in Q3FY23. However, management clarified that ₹38 cr was received from Bloom Energy a little late, on January 7, on account of Christmas holidays. This caused a 39-day jump in WCD. The goal remains to get WCD to 220 (aiming for 225 by FY end).

I took a quick took at net debt levels, and given the company’s market cap, I was not too worried about the net debt figures. In a bid to boost capacity and invest in growth, I would not be opposed to higher debt. Given that the company has already drawn down cash levels from the IPO in 2021, a need for more debt would not surprise me.

image

Future Financial Outlook
I prefer a management that under-promises and then over-delivers, as opposed to the opposite. As mentioned previously, while management initially guided for a 55-60% annual revenue growth in FY23, it looks like that number will be closer to 80%. In the latest earnings call, a preliminary revenue growth guidance of 45-50% was given for FY24. I could very comfortably see the company hitting the upper end of this guidance as well.

I can see the company hitting its stated EBITDA margin target of 29%. Some critical products will transition from small match manufacturing over to mass/continuous manufacturing, especially electrolyzers, aiding margins. In addition, the company has a track record of selective backward integration and import substitution. However, on the flip side, I see advancements in technology and competitive pressures bringing sticker prices down, somewhat countering the margin improvements from manufacturing at scale. Furthermore, I see a steady pipeline of new products being offered by MTAR, and these products might have to be sold in lower volumes with lower margins in the beginning, before the effects of manufacturing at scale kick in. Therefore, across the product portfolio, I can see the company holding margins at the 29% EBITDA level for the medium term.

Keeping that in mind, I am sharing a rough revenue and EBITDA forecast below.

For a company with such strong growth prospects, I do not see an issue with it trading closer to a 30x FY24 EBITDA multiple. The resulting market cap of ₹7503 cr would be a ~41.8% upside from current levels, moving the stock price above ₹2400. Given that the management tends to revise guidance figures higher over the course of an FY, I feel that these projections above could be conservative in nature. It will be interesting to see the company’s year-end earnings release, closing order book value, and official FY24 revenue guidance before commenting further on the matter.

Growth Factors
I am firmly of the view that the majority of the company’s future revenue growth will come from its clean energy division, and I have therefore paid a lot of attention to this division when drafting this section of the report. The primary reasons for believing so are as follows:

• The market for both fuel cells (15% CAGR) and electrolyzers (at least 33% CAGR) will see sustained growth for a long time
• Fuel cells and electrolyzers, unlike highly customized products in the company’s nuclear, space and defence divisions, are fairly standard and modular pieces of equipment, which allows for a speedy transition from small batch manufacturing to mass manufacturing, which helps unlock economies of scale

When I first studied the company, I was perturbed by the revenue contribution from Bloom Energy, which is the source of the majority of the clean energy division’s revenue. However, this does not concern me in the slightest right now. The majority of Bloom Energy’s fuel cell requirements are provided by MTAR, and while Bloom Energy owns the designs, MTAR has innovated on and optimized the manufacturing of these modules. In addition, manufacturing has scaled up to thousands of units annually. Therefore, if Bloom were to leave one fine day, it would have to figure out the nitty-gritty details of the manufacturing processes from scratch. So it is good to know that a two-way dependency exists over here. In addition, while MTAR used to just provide the basic power unit, it will soon supply enclosures as well, courtesy of the new sheet metal facility (this might have already begun). It doesn’t stop there, as MTAR is also providing anode supported planar (ASP) assemblies (set to be a ₹100 cr revenue line item in calendar year 2023), as well as ceramic assemblies and cable harnesses.

As an aside, the electronics manufacturing services push, a step towards broadening MTAR’s capabilities, is yielding positive results. The company has a land and expand strategy, beginning with cable harnesses (as seen with the fuel cells example), and then moving into printed circuit boards (PCBs) and other opportunities.

Back to Bloom Energy, the company is keen to deepen its relationship with MTAR, partnering with them to manufacture electrolyzers. This business is still in the small batch manufacturing stage, and if I remember correctly from the earnings call, a transition to mass manufacturing can be expected in Q3FY24. The fuel cell industry’s total addressable market is growing very quickly, at a rate of 15% annually, and given that the electrolyzer industry is in its infancy, I would expect a true hockey-stick moment to materialize with MTAR’s electrolyzer manufacturing efforts.

During the earnings call, when asked about a three-year perspective on the percentage of revenue coming from Bloom Energy, management made it clear that there is no exclusivity with Bloom Energy, and that they could work with anyone in the fuel cell and electrolyzer space. Bloom Energy is a market leader when it comes to setting up fuel cell systems at scale, and competitors like Plug Power still have work to do to catch up. Additionally, Bloom Energy’s electrolyzers are also believed to be industry-leading. It was made very clear that MTAR is a professionally run organization, and that it knows how to protect client IP when working with two clients in the same sector.

The company made a very interesting move with its senior management recently. A new COO, Raja Sheker Bollampally was appointed, with his tenure officially beginning in April 2023. He has worked in a list of respected companies including Bloom Energy, Ohmium, and Ford Motors. The connection to Bloom Energy, a critical customer, is interesting to say the least. In addition, Ohmium is a well-known electrolyzer design and manufacturing company. It has a large facility in Bengaluru, which was commissioned with an initial annual capacity of 500MW, which has already been increased to 2 GW. I am sure that Raja Sheker Bollampally brings with him some critical know-how to help accelerate MTAR’s fuel cell and electrolyzer ambitions.

From the earnings call, I also found out that energy storage systems are a new opportunity that the company is actively exploring. This makes a lot of sense given that MTAR is already working with fuel cells and electrolyzers, and in a renewable energy-led future, energy storage systems would play a huge role. Discussions are ongoing with multiple MNCs in the US. While discussions around energy storage systems are preliminary, management expects revenue from these systems to rival the revenue coming from Bloom Energy today in a couple of years. Similar to fuel cells and electrolyzers, I can see these systems being standardized and modular in nature, which would facilitate mass manufacturing, enabling economies of scale.

It was nice to see further expansion in the clean energy division this FY with new hydropower industry clients coming onboard, including Andritz, Hitachi Zosen, Voith and GE. MTAR provides its hydropower clients with shafts, specialized tubing and support structures. As I connect the dots, I believe that the company’s new sheet metal facility will play a major role in growing this business. In addition, as I attempt to further connect some dots, any source of power can be used to create H2, and I wonder if the company is exploring H2-related opportunities with its hydropower clients. If so, it could be a lucrative new opportunity.

When I see MTAR, I see an organization that’s always expanding and innovating, as opposed to one that’s resting on its laurels. The company is keen to move up the value chain from providing individual parts, to then building systems and subsystems for its clients, all the way to making its own products. A clear example is its own two-stage LEO satellite launch vehicle that’s currently under development.

Risks to Consider
While it is clear that I am bullish about the company’s prospects, I wish to highlight a few risks that I see for the company going forward.

The obvious risk (even though I have added some context in previous sections) remains the high revenue contribution from Bloom Energy, which provides the majority of the company’s clean energy revenue. While a two-way dependency does exist here, I have to wonder why the company is not maximizing the opportunities in the electrolyzer and fuel cell domain by engaging with other players. Hitching one’s wagons to a single player in these rapidly evolving domains gives me cause for concern.

To further build on this point, I wish to highlight the increasing revenue contribution of the clean energy segment to the company. From 49.8% in FY21, this increased to 62.6% in FY22, and further to 79.4% in 9MFY23, and is set to increase further. While it is good to see the growth in clean energy, and a general move to mass manufacturing and unlocking economies of scale over here, I worry about MTAR transforming from a diversified precision engineering player to a company that primarily supplies parts, systems and products to the clean energy sector. When a company starts seeing lopsided growth, there is a risk that management and R&D teams will double down on the division seeing the most growth, while not giving as much importance to the opportunities in other sectors.

While I need to wait to see FY23 year-end numbers before passing judgement, I do see a spike in capex that makes me wonder about the extent to which capex requirements will increase over time. In FY21, capex stood at ₹22.8 cr, moving up quickly to ₹ 91.1 cr in FY22, and after listening to the Q3FY23 earnings call, I reckon that this figure will be close to ₹150 cr for FY23. While the management has tentatively suggested that FY24 capex levels will be in the ₹50-60 cr range, I still want to closely monitor this number on an ongoing basis, as I do not want to see a scenario where capex grows linearly (or even faster) than revenue.

Whether it is flat screen TVs or computers, as a technology becomes more prevalent, competitive intensity and innovation not only brings down the cost to manufacture these items, but also their selling price. As MTAR is gearing up to scale up fuel cell and electrolyzer manufacturing, while it may increase the number of units manufactured by a factor of x over the medium term, there is no guarantee that revenue growth would also increase by the same factor as prices come down. In addition, since these domains are evolving, it isn’t clear what the margin profile will look like after a few years. If EBITDA margins drop drastically below the ideal 29% target, the company will risk turning into a mass manufacturer of somewhat commoditized products, a departure from being a company that provides high-margin engineering products.

Finally, regarding the shareholding profile of the firm, it is 47.18% promoter owned, followed by 3.79% for FIIs, 28.31% for DIIs, and a public shareholding of 20.72%. However, since the company started as a family-owned business, there are now many third-generation family members that own shares and form a part of the promoter group. However, many of these individuals are not involved in day-to-day operations at all, and may sell their shares from time to time. Management has no control over this. Some significant (2%) promoter selling took place in June 2022, and initially this news panicked other MTAR shareholders, and got picked up in the business news (refer to the Moneycontrol article at the bottom of the sources).

Disclosure of Holding
I started buying MTAR Technologies in August 2022, at a price of ₹1422. I have continued to buy MTAR in small amounts till January this year. I have a very concentrated portfolio, and MTAR is close to 20% of my current portfolio allocation. My cost basis has moved up to ₹1555.

I do not intend to buy any more MTAR shares. While I truly love the company’s future prospects, I do not wish to over-concentrate and bet on one horse.

Sources

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/banking/finance/blackstone-pays-65-mn-for-25-stake-in-hyderabad-firm/articleshow/2526594.cms

52 Likes

Very detailed overview of the company. If I may add a few more comments on Risks and Opportunities. A lot of these opportunities can result in step function growth in revenue opportunities (but all with risks)

Risks with Bloom Energy
I have a slightly different take on the risks with Bloom Energy. This segment of Clean Energy is now nearly 80% of the revenues for MTAR (I suspect most of which is Bloom). MTAR have done a tremendous job in scaling this up, but the visibility of orders is 12 months (although the potential for future growth may be large). The visibility of orders is important from a valuation perspective for me, as it is contingent on Bloom being a going concern.
Therefore, the risk in this part of the business for me is whether Bloom will continue to be a going concern and on its growth trajectory.

On the positive side of this, there are several factors supporting likely growth of Bloom

  • The US government has identified hydrogen as a key energy source and is looking to support it to reduce cost of production
  • Bloom is one of the largest players in hydrogen technology in the US. Their proposition is very specific to Microgrids and potentially as a power back up source.
  • Bloom’s current growth has been from the US and international expansion in South Korea. In their technology day, they talked about their new Europe expansion and that could be another growth driver.

Expect MTAR will announce Bloom Energy orders for CY24 in the next 2-3 months - which should provide earnings visibility into early FY25 - which gives them time to reduce customer concentration risk. I am not sure if there are alternate uses for the production facilities for Bloom. If there are alternate uses, then risks are further reduced.

Opportunity / Risk from Space
MTAR has signed an MoU with IN-SPACe to build a SSLV launch vehicle (apparently much larger opportunity). This is a shift in MTAR’s strategy as they are moving from a precision parts supplier to a full system provider (they also have invested in an in-house EMS for this purpose). This will increase their addressable market manifold

  • ISRO has been making noises about taking a larger share of the international market
  • increased private participation (and hence creation of IN-SPACe)
  • accelerated space activities (although apparently there have been a few false starts here)

There is again a potential for a step change in opportunity here - but requires capabilities which is yet to be proven - and of course financials are still unknown. Management claims if the launch vehicle is successful, after 3 years could be Rs 300-500 cr opportunity (see interview around 1:50 Srinivas Reddy Of MTAR Technologies Speaks On The Company's MoU With In-SPACe | Halftime Report - YouTube)

Opportunities in Nuclear
This was actually the segment that initially attracted me to MTAR. My reading on nuclear is that it is widely recognised as potentially the most appropriate approach to developing base load alternate energy to fossil fuels - but is struggling with high public resistance (due to Fukushima). India has made some announcements on increased nuclear investments (all done through NPCIL). I was attracted to MTAR for this as

  • they seem to make a relatively mission critical part of the reactor (and relatively low cost overall to the reactor - therefore should have decent pricing power)
  • have got a track record for several years. The revenues come from both the initial supply plus maintenance / replacement of the parts.
  • expansion plans for nuclear till 2030

This part of the business looks steadier - but unlikely to see step function changes like Clean Energy and Space (but potentially lower risk)

Overall it does look like a very interesting business. As @ankit_george has highlighted, the management under-promises and over delivers and does not get drawn into making unreasonable predictions (at least till now). My valuation does require ongoing revenues from Clean Energy - but at a slower growth rate from FY25 - but has not taken any upside from Space.

Disc: Could be biased - Am invested and is part of my portfolio as a Medium Conviction - Medium Risk holding

20 Likes

I am glad that you liked the note, @akacker !

I will try to respond to your thoughts in the order than you typed them out.

Risks/Opportunities with Bloom Energy

  • I am not too worried about Bloom Energy’s financial situation. It enjoyed the growth at all costs phase of the markets in North America. However, since sentiment has changed, with investors demanding a path to profitability, Bloom Energy is expected to become free cash flow positive in 2024. If they really need cash in the interim, they have the ability to do a follow-on public offer, as interest in the green H2 space is very high, and I am sure that the offer will have multiple suitors

  • I am of the view that Bloom is in the right place, at the right time. Renewable energy generation usually has peaks and troughs, and the ability to store the energy as H2, or further converting that H2 to ammonia (which is better for long haul transport), will be a game changer. Having read a few industry reports, it appears to be that Bloom’s fuel cell and electrolyzer offerings are definitely in the top half of the market (if not top quartile)

  • You are spot on about the huge opportunity that exists in South Korea, and an even larger opportunity in Europe. Given Bloom Energy’s desire to keep costs low, and the management’s preference to outsource a chunk of their manufacturing, Bloom’s growth will lead to MTAR’s growth as well

  • All this being said, I still do not like MTAR hitching its wagons to a single player in the electrolyzer and fuel cell space. I hope that they work with at least one more player, to capture the phenomenal upside in these domains, and to also de-risk the division’s revenue streams a bit

Risks/Opportunities in Space

  • Regarding MTAR’s own two stage LEO launch vehicle, I expect it to be ready by FY26. I really love this news, as it shows that MTAR does not just rest on its laurels. It forward integrates, and moves from providing parts, to providing systems, all the way to providing its own products. Having one’s own rocket will be no small feat, and I do not think that the market is pricing any of this right now, as it is a bit far out into the future, and like you said, it would require seeing new and proven capabilities in the space division

  • During the Q3FY23 earnings call, management conveyed that ISRO intends to become more of an R&D heavy organization, with other private players being brought in as partners to do the heavy lifting in terms of manufacturing, etc. ISRO keeps checking with the management as to what would be required for MTAR’s space division to triple its capacity, which is a great sign

Risks/Opportunities in Nuclear

  • I fully agree with your view that nuclear power would be a great base load candidate, and it is nice to see that MTAR is active in this domain, especially since India intends to massively increase its nuclear capacity from 6.8 GWe to 22.5 GWe by 2031

  • Though I do not understand this domain very well, just by looking at how MTAR grew its capabilities in the space sector, I do not see why they cannot do the same in the nuclear industry. A stretch goal would be to develop their own reactor, but I am hopeful that MTAR will be able to offer a greater number of systems and sub-systems in this industry, both in India and internationally

  • Unlike the fuel cell and electrolyzer space, where I expect that maintenance requirements will be very low, I think that the nuclear division is such that MTAR will be able to tap into refurbishment and maintenance related revenue streams

  • However, also unlike fuel cells and electrolyzers, I do not see mass manufacturing taking place over here, and I expect that there will be long lead times, higher working capital days, and fairly lumpy revenue (with the exception of well-written maintenance contracts). Therefore, I do not expect revenue growth to be anywhere close to the opportunities in the clean energy division

10 Likes

I keep referring to the Q3FY23 earnings call as the source of a lot of my forward-looking information about the company. I figured I would share my notes from this call with you as well. Please see below:

• The sheet metal business is in full swing. Company has gotten qualified for 67 sheet metal assemblies and enclosures during Q1 in the Clean Energy segment. Supplied ₹24.6 cr worth of sheet metal orders for the Clean Energy segment YTD (till 31 Dec 2022)

• Energy storage systems are a new opportunity that the company is exploring. It will open up a whole host of new opportunities. Discussions are ongoing with multiple MNCs in the US.

The company is guiding for ₹575-600 cr of revenue for FY23, compared to ₹322 cr in FY22. This is significantly higher than the previous 55-60% revenue growth guidance. At the lower end of this guidance, revenue growth would be 78.6%.

• Company intends to maintain EBITDA margins in the 29% ballpark.

• Aiming to have a FY end closing order book of ₹1200 cr. Bear in mind that the company initially had a closing order book target of ₹1000 cr before reporting Q2FY23 results.

Appointed a new COO, Raja Sheker Bollampally. He has worked in an interesting list of companies including Bloom Energy (a huge client of MTAR’s), Ohmium (a large electrolyzer design and manufacturing company, with operations in India), and Ford Motors.

• Management, with a track record of being slightly conservative, has guided for FY24 revenue growth of 45-50%.

• Though I didn’t catch the exact working capital days, it was higher than expected owing to a payment that didn’t get processed over the Christmas holiday season. The goal remains to get working capital days to 220 (aiming for 225 by FY end).

• ASP (anode supported planar) assemblies in fuel cells are set to be a ₹100 cr revenue item in calendar year 2023.

• For FY24, management is expecting a material addition to the order book from a variety of sources, including fuel cells, the hydroelectric sector, sheet metal, and ISRO (keen to triple capacity). While discussions around energy storage systems are preliminary, management expects revenue from these systems to rival the revenue coming from Bloom Energy today in a couple of years.

• The company is continuing down its path of identifying favourable backward integration and import substitution opportunities (heater assemblies, roller screws, etc.).

• The electronics manufacturing services push is yielding positive results. The company has a land and expand strategy, beginning with cable harnesses, and then moving into PCBs and other opportunities.

• When asked about a three-year perspective on the percentage of revenue coming from Bloom Energy, management made it clear that there is no exclusivity with Bloom Energy, and that they could work with anyone. Bloom Energy is a market leader when it comes to setting up fuel cell systems at scale, and competitors like Plug Power still have work to do to catch up. MTAR is professionally run and knows how to protect client IP when working with two clients in the same sector.

• In the space division, the company expects its own launch vehicle to be ready by FY26. When asked about who will provide the engine, it was made clear that MTAR will be designing the engine. This is a clear example of how MTAR has made the move from providing individual parts, to providing systems and subsystems for its clients, all the way to making its own products.

• Management boasted about the company being the only Indian cryogenic engine supplier to ISRO.

• It noted that ISRO wants to become more of an R&D heavy organization, with other players brought in as partners to do the heavy lifting in terms of manufacturing, etc.

• The company’s internal R&D costs are not expected to grow linearly as the company pursues opportunities in new areas. Management intends to leverage the capabilities of the existing team as much as possible.

• Management mentioned that about ₹80 cr of capex was incurred in the first 9 months of FY23, with ₹72 cr of CWIP, with no final decision made on when to expense that amount. Capex in FY24 is expected to be lower in the ₹50-60 cr range.

8 Likes

Im quite glad someone (@ankit_george bhai) decided to create a thread on MTAR. This is one company that IMO as VP we need to do a good job of nailing down because its the rare category of companies that come for an IPO.

Lets start off by talking about the two most prominent risks i see in the investment thesis & then work around that.

Risk 1: How will you fund the growth

Each business has its characteristic in terms of being:
(i) Capital light
(ii) Capital Intensive : Fixed asset heavy
(iii) Capital Intensive : Working Capital heavy

MTAR falls in a mixture of second & third category. We know that because the WC as of Sep-22 balance sheet is : 322 cr compared to Quarterly revenue runrate of 160 cr or so in Q3. And compared to fixed asset base of 238 cr.

The net worth of the company is 562 cr. If we assume Q3 runrate of Profits & that profit gets added to Net worth, the 1 year forward ROE would be 18.5%. If we assume that they can grow the guided 50% & reach 900-1000 cr topline in FY24 with same margins as right now, we end up with 24-26% ROE.
How is this ROE expansion happening despite stable margins?
This is primarily due to better capacity utilization. We know from from MTAR’s brochures from 2021 that they have 370+ machines in aggregate.

What would be nice to understand in subsequent management interactions (like concalls) is the time wise asset utilization here. Given that MTAR performs a wide variety of activities (from mechanical, to incrementally more in sheet metals, electronics, ceramics) it would be hard to calculate a blanket capacity utilization but we can definitely calculate a time wise asset utilization (what % of time that we can run an asset productively are we running the asset productively averaged over all assets).

Given that they have guided for a roughly 66% growth in profits compared to Q3 runrate in FY24 my sense is that there might be significant headroom to increase asset turns & thus ROE.

Having said that, even in the best case scenario wherein they can reach 26-36% ROE in next 1-2 years & not dilute equity, at some point they would have to dilute equity given that their growth rates are higher than their ROE (Guide of 50% growth in FY24 over FY23, 5x revenue in 5 years & bloom growth guide of 30% cagr over a decade)

This is a key event to look out for. Typically cos that raise equity in market end up underperforming at least for a few years (though there can always be exceptions to the rule).

Risk 2: Where are the cashflows

When one analyzes this business at first glance it would seem like a poor quality business because of the lack of cashflows.

There are Two kind of capital for growth

  1. Working capital (inventory, receivables)
  2. Capital expenditure (plant, machinery)

#1 is accounted for in operating cash flow
#2 is accounted for in cashflow from investing activities




Have a look at the breakup of inventory & receivables for MTAR.

  1. 90% of receivables are not even due. They are essentially part of the payment terms
  2. 100% of inventory is raw material & cwip (higher rm for growth & higher cwip due to longer execution timelines)
  3. No finished goods inventory (except what is in transit to the clients)
  4. No credit impaired receivables over last 2 years
  5. Negligible inventory write down

We can Read the concall to understand why the inventory is high. It is due to the fast growth and the long execution cycle.

The high inventory is a characteristic of the biz. Serves as an entry barrier for any new entrant

In short, the cashflow will fund working capital & keep OCF depressed at least until we have high growth.

Risk 3: Valuations

THis is always a tricky & subjective discussion because its a fuzzy concept. We can know a very undervalued company. And a very overvalued company. Everything in middle is fuzzy. How should we think of MTAR?
Per the Q3FY23 guide, FY23 profits should be around 120 cr. Around 43x FY23 earnings. (FY23 will close in 20 days, so this is not really forward looking).
Per the Q3FY23 guide, FY23 profits should be around 180-200 cr. 26-29x FY24 earnings.

Keep in mind that company grew 80% in FY23, guide for 50% growth in FY24, & 37-40% Growth in next 5 years (historically have underpromised & overdelivered).

Definitely not egregiously undervalued. Maybe fairly valued perhaps a bit overvalued. Definitely no margin of safety. This kind of valuation will only sustain until they can keep delivering this kind of asset turnover increasing, ROE expanding growth.

Investment thesis

Despite these risks, why did i chose to invest & how to tackle these risks? I like to think of each company in terms of its unique differentiated value proposition to society. MTAR sort of stands out here.

The best way to understand MTAR is from the eyes of their clients.


MTAR has significant value addition in ISRO GSLV & PSLV rockets. The vikas engine which is used in 1st stage of GSLV & 2nd stage of PSLV is co-developed with ISRO & manufactured by MTAR. the L-40 Strap-on Nose Cone, Command System Module, Reference Pressure POGO Module, Regulator Module, Low Pressure Regulator Module (12.5 bar to 5 bar), HRCM (Hot Gas Roll Control Module), in the cryogenic engine, the Turbo Pump, Injector Head, Gas Generator, Booster Pumps Interface & Startup Systems are all manufactured by MTAR. The engine for PSLV-C25, which launched the Mars Orbiter Mission Spacecraft, as part of the Mangalyaan mission, was supplied to ISRO by MTAR. Further, the engine for the PSLV-C49, which recently injected the EOS-01, an earth observation
satellite, was also supplied to ISRO by us. Was also integral for the GSLV Mark III
engine for the Chandrayaan II mission.

Right now the workhorse for the revenues of MTAR is bloom SOFC (solid oxide fuel cell) boxes. There are multiple growth levers which MTAR is yet to bank on in the future:

  1. Ramp upf hydrogen boxes and electrolyzers for Bloom in about 1 year
    image

  2. 2 us based energy storage cos which can be as large as bloom in 2 years (so two 300-500 cr energy storage clients)


    image

  3. Isro asking mtar to triple capacity + MTAR is building their own own smallsat launch rocket in next 3-4 years (can easily become 400cr + given 1 smallsat launch costs around 7-8 cr (SpaceX slashes base price of smallsat rideshare program, adds "Plates")


  4. Sheet metal, hydel, ceramics can become ~100 cr segments individually leading to increased wallet share of bloom & other energy boxes (all boxes) for MTAR

  5. Bloom has a revenue CAGR guidance of 30% for next decade.

Disc: Invested, biased. Position sizing is proportional to risks (specially valuation risks; might look to add more at lower valuations if thesis is in tact)

30 Likes

Thank you @sahil_vi ! I am glad that the thread is leading to a nice discussion about this very unique company.

Regarding how they will fund the growth, I am really curious as to what path MTAR will take over here. While I will not be bothered if they do a follow-on offering, QIP, rights offering, or something similar, I would prefer if they tried to raise debt instead. Their net debt levels are still fairly low, and if they have received a big order from a long time client, and they take that to a bank, contingent on everything being in order, I do not see why a loan officer would not sanction a short term loan of sorts. In short, I hope they go down the debt route before equity.

I love what you highlighted regarding receivables (90% are not even due), and the nature of the inventory (no finished goods inventory, negligible write down, etc.). It’s a great sign, and speaks volumes about the company’s working capital management, and the quality of its customer base. You are correct about the high levels of inventory serving as a barrier to entry for would be competitors. Also, as we know, high inventory levels are the nature of the beast in this business, and cannot be avoided. If I were disturbed by that, I would solely be investing in tech platforms and SaaS companies instead.

I hope that MTAR continues to over-deliver for shareholders with mid double digit annual revenue growth, new revenue streams in sunrise sectors (ex: energy storage systems), maintaining (or expanding) the current margin profile, and higher asset turns. All this has the potential to nudge the stock higher and higher. In case growth prospects start becoming mediocre, any perceived margin of safety will prove to be imaginary in nature.

5 Likes

Have they hired any previous ISRO staff to design cryogenics engine? I do not think ISRO will give them design on platter. They are associated with ISRO for long time but they will be more in manufacturing and assembling rather than design.

It is like expecting HAL to produce independently alll MIGs and Sukhois since they are assembling and repairing all fighter jets for long time.

I think we should take it with pinch of salt.

I checked last year it along with Sona Comstar, both going in new techs but richly valued. Any hiccup will lead to derating.

Cheers

1 Like

Beg to differ slightly. As @sahil_vi showed through his research - these people might have the expertise through their continued exposure. Also, winning a project also does not just depend on the skills, but other factors which im sure we understood from @sahil_vi s dive.

Yes, better than a pinch, we would require a kg of the proverbial salt, but people grow, teams get better. Though we do not know when, but its quite the sight when it happens.

Definitely a name im looking into, but feel free to prove me wrong, more than happy to be proven wrong (with reasoning of course), seems like the more one is proben wrong, the better one becomes.

1 Like

Another scenario is as they have worked with ISRO, they will most probably launch a copycat of Isro. If they have broken rules then will ISRO or govt of India will act against them like proprietary technology, etc.

These things will need clarification or they can get embroiled in serious legal cases.

Against government, you can imagine worse cases.

I have doubts about these so expressed here, but claim no expertise in this matter.

Disc: Not invested but tracking.

I would tend to agree with @SAURABH_SWARAJ .

First off, I like that MTAR has set a target of FY26 for the completion of their own launch vehicle, which gives us enough time to wait and watch, to see how they build up their capabilities in the space division. MTAR has made it very clear in their latest earnings call that they will be designing their own engine, a bold goal, but again, I will wait and watch.

In general, when I look at the company, I see an organization that constantly looks to forward integrate (moving from supplying parts, to systems, to finished products), opportunistically backward integrate, and take advantage of import substitution opportunities. It’s looking for growth all the time, and does not rest on its laurels.

Let me use the example of the fuel cell business with Bloom Energy. First off, the designs are wholly the property of Bloom Energy. However, the entire process of manufacturing what Bloom needs, at scale, has been iterated and improved on by MTAR, and this then creates a two-way dependency. If Bloom decides to leave, even though they have their designs with them, MTAR is effectively the only entity that can provide the majority of what they need for fuel cells, and it would take a while to work with another supplier to get them to the same level.

I also wish to add that in the beginning, MTAR just provided the basic power unit for Bloom’s fuel cell modules. Now they provide enclosures and ASP assemblies as well, and I believe they’re already supplying bellows (import substitute), heaters (import substitute), and cable harnesses (part of their electronics manufacturing push). I do not think that MTAR is particularly interested in developing fuel cell modules of its own, but due to the continued exposure to Bloom’s work, and not to mention the manufacturing expertise that they have built up, I am fairly certain that they could.

To summarize, with their space division, I will wait and watch.

10 Likes

On fluence energy

One of the client cos mentioned in MTAR concall was Fluence Energy:

As per the guidance fluence can be a large client in next 2-3 years & as large as bloom is today. Fluence happens to be listed in USA so let us understand Fluence.

In Jan 2018, Siemens and AES launched Fluence. This is significant since it combines the financial backing of the two most experienced cos in energy storage.

FLuence is at a runrate of around 1.6-1.8B $ right now

The growth guidance is of 35-40% in 2024 including 40-50% in USA:


This is backed by a 2.7B$ order backlog & a pipeline of 10B$ worth of orders.

Fluence claims to energy storage solutions which are high on safety, reliability & performance


See the : BNEF, Energy Storage System Cost Survey 2022 bankability survey results.

For comparison of scale, Tesla’s energy storage division has around 6-7B$ of revenue:

Looks like outsourcing to india seems to be a part of strategic decisions at Fluence to reduce their cost structure.

While fluence energy current gross margins around around 5% mark,


the incremental deals being signed are aound > 10% GM mark which should improve their sustainability as well

disclosure: same as before

14 Likes

Great discussion. Glad we started talking about MTAR. Can anyone shed light on competition? In the DHRP and mgmt discussions, this was highlighted as a risk esp. In clean energy space where the Co. Gets 60%+ revenue. To shed more light, MTAR did call out that its buyers take aggressive cost cutting approach over a period of time which it can counter with lean mgmt and R&D (one of the divisions are focused on this). Interestingly, economies of scale play a large factor here. If I recollect correctly, the cost
of production can fall by 33% as volume increases. It’s here that it called out that its competitors have more access to resources than it does. Further, a concentrated customer base (Bloom and 2-3 potential in the future) may not give it bargaining power. With so many Indian Cos foraying into green hydrogen (Reliance announcing that it would produce at Rs1/kg and India would be an exporter), where do we see MTAR stand up against esp. If clean energy would become a volume play for MTAR. It has its USP in nuclear and Space sector.

2 Likes

Doesnt the extremely stretched working capital cycle bother anyone here?

1 Like

Thank you Mr ankit george to actually start a thread on MTAR tech.
Note: MTAR is one of my biggest holding and only one decadal play i feel i have at this moment of time, So my view could be biased.
.
Few points worth noting here:
Nuclear project through NPCIL could be game changer for MTAR as it stands to make around 100 crores from one setup and we expect atleast 15-20 setups by 2031 from NPCIL. (if i get the exact number i will share it). This are very high margin business (upwards on 35%).
.
ISRO has asked to triple its capacity to MTAR which shows the confidence top organization has on the company.
.
At present Alkaline and PEM technology are more meaningful in hydrogen world, but Solid oxide fuel is not that far away. Initial rounds of sales has happened for electrolyser and this should only scale further. As per noumura report , out of the total capacity of electrolysers that is going to come by 2030, roughly 20% will come from tech other than alkaline and PEM which makes the market quite big.
.
A stock with 60-70 PE doing a growth of 80% which i feel is completely justified.

3 Likes

Sahil, not sure if Fluence Energy /Energy storage will have much scope for a precision manufacturer like MTAR since BESS products are primarily assembly and wiring of batteries in containers unlike a fuel cell or hydropower or space launch vehicle equipment where there is more scope for value addition due to MTAR manufacturing capabilities.

2 Likes

It is more so because in Mar’22, cash flow had turned negative for a company that is growing rapidly. Even in Mar’21, cash flow from operations/EBITDA was very poor. Thinking about this further, 60%+ revenues come from clean sector which is primarily Bloom. Is this a reflection of MTAR pricing power with Bloom?

@nalamada , you are right to point out that energy storage systems are primarily battery packs, which can raise questions about the degree of value addition that MTAR can provide over here.

While the battery space might feel somewhat commoditized, there are advancements in terms of the materials being used, as well as overall increases in the energy density of cells. I am no expert, but I am seeing a concerted effort around reducing the use of lithium with graphene sodium-ion, and graphene aluminum-ion batteries, for example.

MTAR is great at two things in the clean energy space:

  • Creating a culture of continuous improvement in manufacturing processes

  • Manufacturing at scale (seen with fuel cells, electrolyzers to follow)

I think that MTAR’s R&D and operations teams would be key contributors in terms of figuring out and optimizing the manufacturing processes using new materials in ESS/battery packs, which would make them key partners for any ESS provider. Not to mention the fact that ESS could prove to be a cash cow for the company, with positive free cash flows then being used to fund the company’s other endeavours.

@JR_R , the revenue contribution from Bloom speaks to MTAR’s ability to produce fuel cell modules for them cost-effectively and at scale. I am hopeful that this ability will extend over to electrolyzers as well. I want to take a look at MTAR’s FY23 Annual Report before commenting on how it’s managing cash. In FY22, a lot of funds went into capex, working capital, and the like, and I am curious to see how things are managed in FY23.

You had a question around competition, and for a company like MTAR, doing work in multiple domains, there’s bound to be a lot of competition from other precision engineering goods manufacturers. I will not worry about competitors so long as the company’s margin profile is intact, the number of clients grow, and the number of products that the company produces at scale increases.

There is also a lot of hype in the electrolyzer/green H2 domain, with large companies making bold plans. At this stage, the market potential is immense, and there’s room for multiple players. In addition, while bold plans are one thing, I wish to see progress on execution before commenting further. In terms of actual mass manufacturing, Ohmium is leading the pack in India with a 2 GW facility. In my initial note, I highlighted that MTAR’s new COO, Raja Sheker Bollampally used to work at Ohmium, which is interesting to say the least.

In addition, you might like the following article:

@vnktshb , the long working capital cycle appears to be par for the course in this industry, considering the things that MTAR is manufacturing. I want to see how close management gets to their goal of 220 for working capital days. As manufacturing scales up (especially for clean energy), I expect working capital days to reduce further.

4 Likes

A question on Green hydrogen space:
Isn’t hydrogen just another battery (electricity storage), a very inefficient battery?
As the battery chemistry improves further, costs come down, and produced at scale (e.g. Tesla megapack), would there still be demand for green hydrogen?
Your views pls.