Coffee can method

It is easy to find out what their patents are.

https://www.google.com/search?safe=active&tbm=pts&ei=eCoFXbbSDNne9QOHgQU&q=larsen+%26+toubro+technology+services&oq=larsen+%26+toubro+technology+services&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l4j0i30k1l2j0i8i30k1l4.1469.2972.0.3427.2.2.0.0.0.0.344.501.0j1j0j1.2.0…0…1c.1.64.psy-ab…0.2.501…0i22i30k1.0.UzOxlanHI8o

Again, simple point. If patents were so valuable, why are they not able to get better margins? Patents for IT companies are hygiene factors. Everyone files a few, to impress their clients (and maybe investors). Bottomline is if you cannot price yourself to take advantage of your so-called intellectual property, then does it not mean, there isnt any?

1 Like

Good read

Any guesses to which companies they are referring - The accounts of a leading cement manufacturer don’t stack up. Neither does the annual report of high flying retailer make sense. Ditto with a prominent petchem company and a prominent pharma company

High flying retailer could be one from the Future group. Rest we can guess from old Ambit reports where they used to do forensic accounting.

2 Likes

New addition is Kotak Mahindra Bank as per http://marcellus.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Marcellus_CCP_Newsletter_June_2019-2.pdf

It is no secret anymore that private banking is making a comeback. So this gives you a chance to participate in that swing in market share, earnings growth etc: in the short-run (2-3 years) this high growth and market share gain from liquidity starved competitors will make the valuations reasonable as earnings will catch up to your entry valuation. And further you get to stick around and compound capital in the growing financial services market with a strong strong franchise…

Kotak seems to be a strong coffee can candidate. Would love further insights from everyone!

3 Likes

Agree. Global leader in this space is Altran which also has its base in India.
Altran and LTTS have same Mcap.

Altran revenues are north of 3Billion USD where as LLTS revenues are about 0.8B USD.

1 Like

Do u know the size of ER&D Services market. And how much top 100 clients of LTTS are spending on ER&D Services

Hi, welcome to ValuePickr Forum.

Can you please mention the source? Is it from this LiveMint article? Some parts are unique.

Extract from the annual report of LTTS which came in an hour back today, 17-June-2019. Its almost as if the writer of the AR paraphrased what’s been written here ! Ok, I’m done flogging the dead horse here.:laughing:

On the operational side, LTTS performance
depends on the Utilisation rate of its billable employees,
effective talent management addressing hiring, skilling
and retention of high quality resources, management of
foreign exchange volatility risk since a significant portion
of business is billed in currencies like USD and EUR,
and the onsite-offshore revenue mix as profit margins
are typically higher if work is performed offshore as
compared to onsite.
From a regulatory standpoint, LTTS business
sustainability requires protecting the confidentiality
and intellectual property rights of our customers
failing
which we could be liable for damages, being compliant
to the local regulations that include immigration
and data protection laws, in every country we are
present in.

1 Like

It’s a basic courtesy that when you post any image pls mention the source of it. Otherwise how would people know is it your opinion or extracted from paid content or copied from public source.

3 Likes

Thanks for pointing out the OPM correlation. “something different” can only be useful to an investor if there is pricing power.

Dears

As mentioned earlier in LTTS thread, LTTS is like any other services IT companies with some insignificant products (in terms of contribution to profits) and patents which do not contribute much either to profits. Good on papers though. It will grow almost like any other bodyshop IT company and also depend on growth of its target Engineering vertical. Generally a single product company has lower multiple because of the associated risk, however I see a higher multiple for this single vertical focussed services company. LTI is equally focussed on digital bla bla new age technology as is LTTS as is Mindtree as is any other body shop now.
Disc: Was invested in LTI. may buy LTI and LTTS again for trading only

1 Like

Hi All,

Here is a newly listed company from a great corporate house. They are into the logistics space.

Mahindra Logistics Limited is one of India’s largest Third Party Logistics (3PL) solutions provider in the Indian logistics industry which was estimated at 6,40,000 crores in Fiscal 2017, according to a report titled “Report of supply chain and 3PL potential in India, freight forwarding and corporate people transportation services” dated 31 July 2017, prepared by CRISIL Research. The competitive advantage is their “asset-light” business model pursuant to which assets necessary for operations such as vehicles and warehouses are owned or provided by a large network of business partners. Their technology enabled, “asset-light” business model allows for scalability of services as well as the flexibility to develop and offer customized logistics solutions across a diverse set of industries. They operate in two distinct business segments, Supply Chain Management (“SCM”) and People Transport Solutions (“PTS”).

SCM

They offer customized and end-to-end logistics solutions and services including transportation and distribution, warehousing, in-factory logistics and value-added services to clients. They operate through a pan-India network comprising 25 city offices and over 350 client and operating locations. Mahindra Logistics have a large network of over 1,000 business partners providing vehicles, warehouses and other assets and services. They manage over 13.0 million square feet of warehousing space spread across our pan-India network of multi-user warehouses, built-to-suit warehouses, stockyards, network hubs and cross-docks and operate in-factory stores and line-feed at over 35 manufacturing locations. The “asset-light” business model along with solutions design capabilities enables to serve over 200 domestic and multinational companies operating in several industry verticals in India, including automotive, engineering, consumer goods, pharmaceuticals, e-commerce and bulk. They have sourced or developed customized technology systems to provide innovative and cost-efficient solutions to improve transparency and visibility for their clients.

PTS

Mahindra Logistics provides technology-enabled people transportation solutions and services across India to over 100 domestic and multinational companies operating in the information technology (“IT”), information technology-enabled services (“ITeS”), business process outsourcing, financial services, consulting and manufacturing industries. Services are through a fleet of vehicles provided by a large network of over 500 business partners.

As per CRISIL, Logistics as a percentage of GDP is 13-14%. The Indian logistics industry comprising segments such as road freight, rail freight, coastal freight, warehousing, cold chain and container freight stations and inland container depots (“CFS/ICD”) is estimated at
6,40,000 crores in Fiscal 2017. This is expected to grow at a CAGR of approximately 13.0% to 9,20,000 crores by Fiscal 2020.

Further the report has estimated the 3PL market in India at 32,500-33,500 crores in Fiscal 2017, which is expected to grow at a CAGR of 19-21% to reach ` 57,000-58,000 crores
by Fiscal 2020. It is to be noted that Mahindra Logistics does ~4,000cr in revenues so they are a significant player in the 3PL market.

2 Noteworthy subsidiaries of theirs:

Lords Freight (India) Private Limited,provides international freight forwarding services for exports and imports, customs brokerage operations, project cargo services and charters.

2X2 Logistics Private Limited, provides logistics and transportation services to OEMs to carry finished automobiles from the manufacturing locations to stockyards or directly to the distributors through specially designed vehicles.

Now one of the highlights is of course that the majority of the company’s revenue comes from the Mahindra group itself. In 16-17 it was ~54% and in 17-18 ~54.5%. And the bulk of the revenues come from the automotive sector in 16-17 it was ~61% & in 17-18 it was ~62%.

It is not a bad thing that bulk of the revenues come from the automotive industry. There is always an opportunity in the auto space whether it is ICE, EV, Bikes, Cars etc:. The company however is looking to diversify its sector dependence.

Their asset-light model provides them with lots of flexibility in the case of a lull in a certain industry/scaling down/scaling up operations. Due the asset-light nature the impact on the company should such a scenario occur can be decreased in my view.

The business however does operate on slim margins.

Mahindra logistics comes across as more of a logistics technology company. An aggregator on the supply side and a tech company on the operations side.

They intend to continue to develop technology systems to increase transparency, improve operating efficiencies, and strengthen the competitive position. IGoing forward, the plan is to focus on the areas set out below:
• Enhancements to transportation management systems
including last mile route and load optimization capabilities
• Digitization of internal processes (e.g. implementation
of an advanced human resources management system,
accounts receivable/payable management systems)
• Implementation of advanced warehouse management
systems (e.g. Oracle Log Fire) at our warehouses
• Implementation of “internet of things (IoT)” projects in
certain operations
• Work with startups to develop a cloud based platform for
handling end to end transport desk outsourcing operations
for the PTS business
• Analytics to improve operating efficiencies
They may develop these technologies themselves or outsource development to third party vendors. They are actively assessing opportunities to work with logistics technology start-ups, either by incubating them, or partnering with them. They will consider acquiring technologies to help achieve their digitization objectives.

Here are a few articles:

Coming to the valuations there are a few questions I would like consider:

  1. Is the business growing fast? can we get 20% cagr for sometime (3-5 years)?
  2. Can the business sustain its high ROCE for a long time (5 years plus) ?
  3. Is the business in an innovator and a leader in its sector?
  4. Can the business scale?
  5. What is the reason for clients to choose them?/ competitive advantage?
  6. Valuations?

A1) By the looks of things the business is growing fast and should be able to continue doing so for the next few years.

A2) It seems like the business can maintain a high ROCE going forward. They have decent working capital and debtor days as per screener data.

A3) It definately does look like it. They seem to be focussed on innovation and applying technology. Further they do have a certain know-how and scale to lead the sector.

A4) Yes. They can scale faster than a traditional logistics player can. They can also do so more cost effectively.

A5) The space and the business is not at all an easy business to operate. Let alone doing so cost effectively, all while operating on a slim margin. Doing it at scale is not something that just anybody can do. Further being asset light and aggregating hundreds of suppliers is a challenge for a new entrant. Many providers will be rather comfortable working with the Mahindra group as opposed to another 3PL player or even approaching a client directly as they may only fullfill a small portion of the clients logistics requirements. Such clients will also prefer to deal with a single experienced vendor for an end-end service. This leads to some stickiness as well. Further Mahindra Logistics offers customised solutions which could be a mix of various forms of logistics services/supply chain solutions that may involve multiple partners and co-ordinating the same. It is much easier for a corporation outsource end-to-end work to one reputed company. It saves them operational costs and inefficiencies as well.

A6) Two ways to look at it

  1. The business can grow fast and scale quickly. The industry is growing fast as well. You are getting a leader in a fast growing industry with the potential to scale & a high quality corporate house backing it. The company generates a high ROCE as well. The 40x multiple seems expensive but the growth is there.

  2. You are getting a high quality Mahindra group company that is growing at 3500cr market cap.

I would love to have the views of our experience members on the same. @hitesh2710 @basumallick

6 Likes

where is the data published on the percent allocation of various stocks in Marcellus portfolio? Many thanks

You can navigate through their website and watch their latest video. It is an hour long with Saurabh Mukherjea and Rakshit ranjan. simply enter your email and sign-up when it asks and you will allowed to access the video. The entire portfolio is placed in front of you.

They have exited cera completely as they were unable to garner conviction through their research and channel checks.

2 Likes

Really good report generated by MOS showing portfolios of several PMS and equity mutual funds. Most funds are holding well known names and winners from the past. I think the key assessment that each investor needs to do on their own is if these winners of yesterday will continue to be winners of the future.

5 Likes

Saurabh mukherjea of Marcellus on how Nestle is a consistent compounders and why HUL is not in the same league . An interesting video
http://www.ecoti.in/5RZWXa

Article referenced in the above video, an interesting read


I guess this is something similar to Prof Bakshi article on valuation by exit multiple.
It clears confusion between blue chips and consistent compounders.

1 Like

Pardon my ignorance but can some explain what a franchise means(as Saurabh Mukherjea keeps referring to it). Would help if someone can give example tod a strong franchise co. Thanks.

1 Like

A strong franchise means a consistent compounder that gives an high average return for lot many years as opposed to companies that go through high growth phase and then growth declines and may stay flat. As per him These companies give steady growth rate on an average over a long period . He gives example of HDFC bank , Asian paints , Marico , Berger paints " Do read his book " the unusual billionaire " for explanation of such great companies . You can refer website of Marcellus investment for classification between type a,b and c companies where he goes on to explain one category of companies is found only in India . Do refer to the video at the beginning of this thread shared by @1.5cr and the webinar on Marcellus website for more details .

6 Likes

On page inds.

6 Likes