Good question !
Earlier also someone asking me the same.
I have now with me the detailed IIT kanpur Study on EV vs Hybrids both on foreign brands and Indian brands.
It is orginal document, though available in public domain attached here for knowledge and benefit of all valuepickr members
Earlier I had attached only the summary which I am attaching again for ready reference.
Good question !
Thanks Om !
-BEVs emit 187g CO2 eq./km, hybrids emit 167g CO2 eq./km, while ICEV(petrol only doesn’t talk about diesel) emit 244g CO2 eq./km.
To me, newsletter isn’t giving full idea of scope1,2,3 emissions. ( i.e. emissions happened during raw material production & transport, emissions happened at manufacturing process, emissions happened at transporting finished vehicles)
IIT paper, is more detailed
1.The life cycle GHG emissions for BEV, HEV, and ICEV were 240, 174, and 242 gCOeq./km
2. For BEV, GHG emissions during the manufacturing of vehicles were 41.17% higher than HEV, and for the ICEV, they were 14.7% lower than HEV.
3. The life cycle GHG emissions for BEV and HEV increased by 7% and 1.1% after a one-time battery replacement. The increase in GHG emissions during the production vehicle increased by 35.4% for BEV and 3% for HEV due to onetime battery replacement.
1.The life cycle GHG emissions for BEV, HEV, and ICEV-P were 187, 167, and 244 gCOeq./km respectively,
2. GHG emissions during the manufacturing of vehicles were the highest for BEV. For BEV, GHG emissions during manufacturing were 35.3% higher than HEV, and for the ICEV-P, they were 3% lower than HEV
3. The life cycle GHG emissions for BEV and HEV increased by 6.9 and 1.2% after 1x battery replacement. The increase in GHG emissions during the production of vehicles was 30.2% for BEV and 6% for HEV due to 1x battery replacement.
I am trying to identify scope 1,2,3 emissions in terms kg or grams of CO2 emitted for manufacturing a vehicle(BEV, HEV, ICEV), did i miss it into IIT paper ?
This is what future looks like !.
MGL in Mumbai will now generate CBG by conversion of 1000 tons of solid municipal waste into around 40 tonnes of CBG -compressed biogas every day.
It looks like all CGD’s …such as Adani Gas, IGL, Gujarat Gas will soon follow similar routes.
Existing CNG filling stations now can dispense CBG in CNG vehicles without any change in CNG stations infra.
CBG can also be used in place of PNG for domestic kitchen.
How does it help ?
CNG is non renewable and we are import dependent and subject to price volatility.
CBG is renewable - Price stable, Atma Nirbhar Bharat
The only problem that I can see with the Bio fuel is that most of the ethanol is produced using sugarcane. And Sugarcane is a crop which require a large amount of water to grow compared to other crops. Given the population of India will it be sustainable?
EV has it own problem like production of lithium itself produce a lot of CO2. With EV the demand of electricity will increase. Most of the electricity is still produced in thermal power plant. For EV to work renewable energy stations will require a energy storage solution, so that they can become reliable supplier of energy.
And EV is only sustainable in Light vehicles. In heavy vehicle which is used for transportation of goods. The lithium battery weight will be so huge, that it will not be feasible.
Hydrogen can be the future and Toyota has break through with hydrogen combustion engine. But the problem with hydrogen is that the production itself emits a lot of CO2. And green hydrogen’s cost of production is too high which makes it unsustainable.
In my opinion all three solution should be explored rather than relying on any one of them.
The report is Cradle-to-Grave LCA which takes care of the entire life cycle of extraction, refining , manufacturing, maintenance and recycling for a fixed life of 2,00,000 kms.
What I find they have added all 3 GHG’s CO2, N2O & CH4 together and they have made it CO2 equivalent, since all the three are very strong Global warming Gases
If you are looking for how these vehicle types compare only for CO2 during manufacturing , this exclusive comparative data not available in this report , though they may have it.
Ethanol production from Non food crops technology already available. Many oil PSU’s have installed 2 G ethanol plant the feedstock for which is straw, agri waste , stubble …etc.
So dependence on ethanol from sugarcane, grains should come down., share of 2G ethanol should go up.
On EV , I see another issue. Renewable energy storage is required for feeding in to grid and the ESS would again depend upon lithium ion battery. So there is a competition between EV & Renewal energy storage solution at global level for getting the same lithium ion battery the elements of lithium cobal nickel available only in few countries as of now.
So EV will continue to coexist and yes limited to 2 wheelers and may be cars and buses in metro cities. But now since 2 wheeler CNG/ CBG is available , it would be much cheaper to buy and operate a CBG 2 wheeler.
Hybrids is also becoming very popular with impressive carbon foot print and cost of operation even without govt subsidy
Hydrogen is the ultimate Green fuel…But why single out Toyota for hydrogen only . .today every Auto OEM India has a pilot project hydrogen iC engine and some of them with even fuel cell vehicle. Once hydrogen filling infra made available , they will produce in a large number. because Hydrogen IC is a upgradation of existing petrol diesel engine.
Leyland hydrogen / Tata hydrogen pilot buses are already running on Road. A few hydrogen filling stations have also been made at Delhi and ense where.
Hydrogen IC engine is not a big deal, Fuel cell though.
Finally yes, many alternatives to disel petrol now available in Indian roads, EV, Hybrids, Ethanol blend , flexi, flexi hybrids, CNG, CBG, LNG, LBG, Biodiesel , Hydrogen, Fuel cell …and so on.
Punjab Govt initiates CBG plant @20 Tonnes of CBG per day at Hoshiarpur - to be ready by Dec 2023 out of Agri waste , municipality waste.
If this is done in all cities locally , then we don’t need to construct lengthy pipe lines like HBJ pipeline length of which is 2300 kms which goes from Hajira to Jagdishpur and now extended to many locations.
And there is never dearth of municipality waste in each city town. Apart from CBG as the main product , the other bye product is organic fertilizer which would be sold and used by farmers and you get organic vegetables , crops and fruits… Win -win situation for all stakeholders !
I mentioned specifically Toyota because they have a lead in hydrogen technology. They refused to join the EV bandwagon for a long time. They were the first to bring hybrid in the market. And at this moment only Toyota has technology of hydrogen combustion engine.
Hydrogen IC is a big deal because of the way hydrogen reacts. It will corrode any traditional engine part very easily. So you need to design a new engine from scratch. Plus you also need to find metallic composition which will not corrode because of hydrogen.
Fuel cell technology exist 100+ years at this point so it is not a big deal. Every auto company on planet earth knows how to make a fuel cell and Tata hydrogen/ Leyland hydrogen are based on fuel cell.
Fuel cell is very expensive… Fuel cell is opposite of electrolyser. Fuel cell uses Platinum a noble metal, a key catalyst in this process. However, platinum degrades unevenly in fuel cells, resulting in still-usable platinum being discarded when “worn out” fuel cells are replaced.
Manufacturing cost is very high and at the moment because the entire Fuel cell needs to be imported cost in USA @10000-15000 USD approx for cars…could still be higher for buses.
So, In spite of being 100 years technology , Fuel cell has not been able to make a dent world over. But now onwards it should make - now that the world is focussing on Green hydrogen. Fuel cell cost should come down as more and more people would go for R&,D and cost reduction.
Today because of expensive fuel cell which needs to be imported , we are now looking for BESS for integrating renewable energy with Grid rather than Renewable energy- Electrolyser-Green hydrogen - Fuel cell route.
Regarding Tata Leyland buses - Fuel cell is only a pilot trial as the minister wanted. But Hydrogen IC Bus is also already running sponsored by Reliance and few others…I had posted 6 months back under Green hydrogen thread on IC hydrogen bus launch.
As of now, if we have to go for mass production in huge number , IC Hydrogen is more practicable than fuel cell. Anti-corrosion , material…our metallurgists are experts …so we can …so Atma nirbhar Bharat …
and since It is IC engine, serviceability not an issue - no special skill required. existing technicians can handle piston , connecting rod , crankshaft, cam shaft etc etc.
Yes, Toyota & Suzuki Maruti has marketing arrangment for promoting each other’s products …that include Hybrids Hydrogen
Maruti’s Bhargava says that the electric cars will not be clean until India gets at least 50 per cent of its electricity from renewable sources.
According to him, Until then, the hybrid cars will be cleaner, he said, adding that even shifting to CNG cars is a better option, as CNG is a cleaner fuel than petrol.
“May be India should move to ethanol, hydrogen and fuel cell options instead of going for electric cars,” he said.
IOCL forms 50:50 joint venture with EverEnviro Resource Management Pvt Ltd and GPS Renewables Pvt Ltd for setting up compressed biogas plants
IOCL approved joint ventures with EverEnviro Resource Management Pvt Ltd and GPS Renewables Pvt Ltd for setting up compressed biogas plants
This figure does not include CV CNG & 3 wheeler CNG.
The availability of CNG has improved significantly, with more than 5,760 CNG filling stations now available throughout the country which is expected to reach 8000 by fy 2024.
So , switching from CNG to CBG would not be a problem when BCG production volume increases. The same CNG infra and the very same CNG vehicles could run on CBG.
Molasses is a bye-product of Sugar mills and a raw material for Ethanol production.
Reduction of GST from 28% to 5% will benefit Sugarcane industry, Encourage Sugar Mills to produce more Molasses, encourage farmers to cultivate more Sugar cane and encourage production of Ethanol.
GST on Ethanol for blending purpose has already been reduced from 18% to 5%.
LNG - is the fuel for future for long-haul trucking.