Astral Ltd. (Earlier: Astral Poly Technik Ltd.) ~ Leading Pipes & Adhesives company

One correction:It is 120 days credit termsfrom Lubrizol,not 6 months. It used to be 6 months till the 2008-09! (learnings from last forex debacle perhaps)

So in Q3, in Oct -Dec 2011, Astral will need to pay up the import bill for June, July & August 2011,isn’t it. Similarly in Q2 July-Sep 2011, it would have footed the import bill for Mar, Apr & May 2011, right -thatswhy there was no significant forex impact seen in Q2results.

Neither will the impact be seen in Q3 which will foot the import bill for June, July & Aug 2011 in respective months.(Rupee depreciated from 45 to 49, and beyond starting Sep 2011).

In Q4, January, Feb and Mar 2011 - it will need to foot the import bill for Sep, Oct & Nov 2011 respectively. However, the extent of damage will be the difference till 52+ to a dollar (Nov 2011 rates). This will be a double whammy for the company. Forex impact and loan liability impact will also need to be accounted in Q4.

Is this reasoning correct?

Only if their pass through takes longer than 3 months. i.e. if they can increase prices to account for the increase in RM, ten there should be not much impact.

Hi,

I am a bit confused here. I thought the losses were related to foreign currency loans and not from payables to Lubrizol. Doesnt the company hedge for the payables?

Regards

Not sure. Trying to get clarity/hedging details from the company.

Unless these payables are fully hedged, actual losses to P&L will accrue from the difference in forex currency with the payment peggged to prevailing rates.Due to the 120 days credit terms extended by Lubrizol, inJan Feb & Mar months of Q4 Astral will be paying for the imports of Sep Oct and Nov (with 4 month lag) respectively, at current forex rates.

Reportedly, this is what is bothering market analysts more than the Loan repricing and forex interest differential that is announced by the company to be accounted for in Q4!

-Donald

hmm…even if they didnt hedge the payables, the currency losses on the payables would have also been part of the q2 forex losses i would imagine. But yeah…would be great to get the clarification from management.

I was told by someone in the know that one PMS scheme sold a fair bit in the last 2 weeks.

Hi Abhishek,

Some relevant data from Q2concall

1). Lubrizol revised RM prices by ~6% from July 2011

2). Q2 revised prices upwards between 3-3.5% . Oct 2.5% up, Nov expected 3-3.5% up

3.There was a forex loss due to changes in foreign exchange rates of Rs 1.22 crore.The company till recently used to hedge its forex for short period. But with very high volatility of Rupee verses Dollar, it is changing its hedging policy, which the management said will discuss in next conference call.

4.The company’s expansion work at Dholka is delayed for some time and now it is ready with the plant and installation of machineries will start in November and will commence commercial production by December â2011 and by January end of next year, it will work at full capacity.The total capacity will increase to 70000 â 75000 MT once Dholka plant is ready.

So, it is not that alarming a situation as was being made out? lets wait for our guys to get us some data from the company.

-Donald

For people who are further interested in the hedging practises of Indian companies along with some recent live examples

http://www.slideshare.net/cwhizkid420/exchange-rate-risk-hedging-by-indian-companies

pls note…am not the author of this ppt and cannot vouch for the accuracy of it either

Donald, if RM prices were increased by Lubrizol by 6%, then effectively the cost for RM for Astral has gone by approx 22.5%. The price increase that it has made is closer to 10%. So, it looks that there will be margin pressures in the next few quarters. If it can maintain its sales growth in the face of this increase in price, then it probably has a good future.

Explaining the 22.5% cost increase:-

Say Lubrizol RM cost is $100 / kg andDollar-INR exchange rate on 1 Apr is 45Rs-1$

To buy 1 kg of RM, Astral has to pay 100$ x 45Rs=4500Rs

Lubrizol increases cost by 6%, then price moves to 106$

New Dollar-INR Exchnage rate on 1 July is 52Rs-1$

To buy 1 kg of RM, Astral has to pay 106$ x 52Rs=5512Rs

Thus, price rise by Lubrizol after considering rupee depreciation is 1012Rs/kg ~ 22.5%

Hi Abhishek,

A couple of points to note for above calculation:

1). The raw material cost is abt 65% of turnover (and of this only about 50% is imported)

2). The update of the cocall must be till Nov i.e… till rupee was at 49 levels.

Regards,

Ayush

Okay…good point…that means that there is unlikely to be a major impact of the forex fluctuations as most of it is getting passed through.

Time to rephrase the questions for Astral on forex management.

Forex fluctuation impact on outstanding ECB balances.

1). ECB Loan - As on Sep 30, debt is 53 Cr.

How much of this is ECB? And what are the interest costs and repayment terms.

2). You have mentioned a loss of ~8 Cr for 1HFY12 - loss arising on foreign exchange rate fluctuation on outstanding balances, which will be accounted for at the end of the financial year.

As per AS-30, Astral would also have the flexibility to capitalise this (including interest outgo). Many companies spending on capex expansion have decided to capitalise this - Balkrishna Industries, PI industries, for example. Why is Astral not considering capitalising this - Is that not a n option at all?

3). Exceptional items (1.22 Cr) loss due to changes in Forex rates on repayment of borrowings accounted for in Q2FY12

Kindly elaborate on this. Is this on account of interest payments only, or? Similar impacts in Q3 or Q4?

4.Q2 concall mentioned raising another 15-20 Cr ECB at Libor +3%

What further tranches has the company drawn in Oct, Nov and so far in Dec? and at what rates respectively?

_5). _The Rupee has since appreciated to 52 to US$

Is it correct to surmise that if the Rupee remains at ~52 to US$ till the year end, there will be additional liability of another ~4cr that will need to be accounted for by 31st Mar 2012, on the loans till Sep 30 alone?

Forex fluctuation impact on Payables

1). Liabilities as on 30 Sep 2011 - 136.88 Cr

What is the Forex component in this?

2). 120 days credit terms with Lubrizol.This normally would work to Astral’s advantage. But in the face of the rapidly depreciating rupee this might be posing a challenging situation.

Kindly explain the hedging policies followed by Astral on Payables. Do you hedge fully your net outflows, or partially? How much?

3.Rupee has depreciated only starting Sep 2011. Implications on forex losses in FY12 on account of unhedged payables.

Since 120 days credit terms are in place, is it right to say that in Oct-Dec FY11, you will be paying for payables of Jun-Aug FY11? And since rupee had not depreciated till August, there is no impact on this front? Does this mean there will be a big impact in Q4 as the full impact of rupee depreciation from Sep till date will need to be accounted for?

4). Accounting norms

As per accounting norms, aren’t you required to account upfront -even if the payables are due months later? If so, what is the likely impact respectively in Q3 and Q4 FY12?

5.The Rupee has since appreciated to 52 to US$

Is it correct to surmise that if the Rupee remains at ~52 to US$ till the year end, there will likely be another hit of ~6-8 Cr on the payables front (if fully unhedged)?

Meghmani Organics floats joint venture with Mitsui, Kaneka

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/article2692074.ece?homepage=true&ref=wl_home

Thanks Hemant.

Excerpt from the same article:

“Kaneka, a pioneer in the CPVC business in Japan, USA and other Asian countries, has CPVC plants in Japan and the US with a total global production capacity of 46,000 tonnes per annum.”

Global production at 46000 MT per year is miniscule! This highlights the CPVC raw material compound availability problem Astral had alluded to in our Management Q&A.

Interestingly the same press note says "Mitsui will handle raw material PVC procurement and play a key role in CPVC sales and marketing in Indian market, now growing at 40 per cent rate annually."

The CPVC market growth is heady, and thatswhy competition/capital flows into the sector would keep raising its head from time to time. We need to guage for ourselves hoiw significant and what scale this activity is at! My reading is its pretty low at this stage inclusing the Supreme and other forays. RM sourcing is key and reportedly our very own RIL has had a go at CPVC feasibility and given up on it!

The other thing that doesnt add up in this press note is the 600 Cr investment announcement. Astral Gross Block FY11 is only 138 Cr, fixed assets Sep 30 is 114 Cr…and this is 70000 MT already. Why do they need 600 Cr?

I had asked others to come back on CPVC capacities put up by Supreme, and other new entrants. Abhishek any clues from Supreme AR, or feedback from any quarters!

Lets remain on top of this. And may be we should broaden the questioning to Astral Management (planned) to include other than forex issues such as these?

-Donald

Some hurried questions sent in by Ayush - for our consideration.

1). As per recent report, the ECB loan is of abt 53 Cr…so how did the co suffer a 8 Cr loss on an approx. 10% depreciation in rupee?

2). Day by day the competition seems to be increasing in the CPVC space. New players are entering and advertising their presence in CPVC…supreme is very upbeat on this segment…meghmani is reported to be in talks with a Japenese co for a manufacturing plant of CPVC in Guj. So what is the competitive status as of now? What kind of volumes are the competitors getting? Will the competition decrease the operating margins of the co…like it has been happening over the last few years?

3). Where does the co see long term stable OPMs?

4). The construction sector is witnessing a slowdown while at the same time more players are entering this segment…so how will the co be able to deliver 25-30% growth expected earlier?

5). Recently one of the co-promoter sold off his stake to Mr. Engineer. Any particular reason for exit? Mr. Dalal was research head at Lubrizol…will his exit be negative for the co over a longer term?

In Q2 conference call transcript of Supreme (found on their website)

current capacity : 6000tons.
Last year revenues from CPVC : 102cr
FY12 projections CPVC: 160cr
FY13 projections CPVC: 50% increase over FY12

Supreme gets CPVC from Kaneka Japan. They say in India there are 2-3 customers from Lubrizol and 4-5 from Kanaka. In fact , supreme accounts for 50% of Kaneka sales in india. Supreme looks to be growing faster than Astral in the CPVC segment.

Lastly, they say they want to be leaders in CPVC. With their network they sure can be. As I mentioned earlier, I see a lot of shops in area where I stay in bangalore have started advertising supreme lifeline(though that may be representative bias).

If Kaneka starts tieing with many smaller players and starts flooding the market with CPVC, then margins can only deteriorate from here.

Astral will continue to have a significant market share for the next 2-3 years. Once the newercapacitiesof other firms come up, it will be a more competitive market in this particular space and I don’t expect margins to be higher than 7-8%. However, Astral will also come out wiht other prodcuts like Aluminium CPVC (not sure what that is), also it has signed an NDA with Lubrizol to manufacture CPVC compund in India, so they may end up as suppliers to Supreme and others. Lets see how the story on this develops, but for now there seems to be enough head room for growth for all the players.

Why do we find competition significant in such a heady growth market? I can’t see it as even minorly significant in next 2 years!

To put a perspective on this competition overkill.

Global Kaneka CPVC capacity : 46000 MT

Astral capacity : 70000 MT;Ashirwad : 50000 MT

Supreme 6000 MT! a 50% scale up in production in 2 years ~14000 MT!! even now Astral capacity is 5x that. The overall market opportunity is so much bigger. Everyone can grow at heady rates and still there is room for more players!

And then we need to think why is Kaneka a 2nd alternate supplier to Lubrizol languishing at 46000 MT capacity, when the market opportunity is so big? Capital is surely not the constraint, then?

Food for thought!

Revised set of Questions for Astral. Please see if these address all concerns raised so far

Forex fluctuation impact on outstanding ECB balances.

1). ECB Loan - As on Sep 30, debt is 53 Cr.

How much of this is ECB? And what are the interest costs and repayment terms.

2). You have mentioned a loss of ~8 Cr for 1HFY12 )- loss arising on foreign exchange rate fluctuation on outstanding balances, which will be accounted for at the end of the financial year.

This can at best account for 4-5 Cr of loss on ECB loan outstanding balances. Does this mean the 8 Cr loss includes notional losses from the Payables as well, how much?

As per AS-30, Astral would also have the flexibility to capitalise this (including interest outgo). Many companies spending on capex expansion have decided to capitalise this - Balkrishna Industries, PI industries, for example. Why is Astral not considering capitalising this part - Is that not an option at all?

Is partial hedging an option? Why, or why not?

3). Exceptional items (1.22 Cr) loss due to changes in Forex rates on repayment of borrowings accounted for in Q2FY12

Kindly elaborate on this. Is this on account of interest payments only, or? Similar impacts in Q3 or Q4?

4.Q2 concall mentioned raising another 15-20 Cr ECB at Libor +3%

What further tranches has the company drawn in Oct, Nov and so far in Dec? and at what rates respectively?

_5.___The Rupee has since appreciated to 52 to US$

Is it correct to surmise that if the Rupee remains at ~52 to US$ till the year end, there will be additional liability of another ~4cr that will need to be accounted for by 31st Mar 2012, on the loans till Sep 30 alone?

Forex fluctuation impact on Payables

1). Liabilities as on 30 Sep 2011 - 136.88 Cr. RM import is roughly 36% of Sales

Forex paybles are at what levels? 50-60 Crs?

2). 120 days credit terms with Lubrizol.This normally would work to Astral’s advantage. But in the face of the rapidly depreciating rupee this might be posing a challenging situation.

Kindly explain the hedging policies followed by Astral on Payables. Do you hedge fully your net outflows, or partially? How much?

3.Rupee has depreciated only starting Sep 2011). Implications on forex losses in FY12 on account of unhedged payables.

Since 120 days credit terms are in place, is it right to say that in Oct-Dec FY11, you will be paying for payables of Jun-Aug FY11? And since rupee had not depreciated till August, there is no impact on this front? Does this mean there will be a big impact in Q4 as the full impact of rupee depreciation from Sep till date will need to be accounted for?

4). Accounting norms

As per accounting norms, aren’t you required to account upfront -even if the payables are due months later? If so, what is the likely impact respectively in Q3 and Q4 FY12?

5.The Rupee has since appreciated to 52 to US$

Is it correct to surmise that if the Rupee remains at ~52 to US$ till the year end, there will likely be another hit of ~6-8 Cr on the payables front (if fully unhedged)?

Margin pressures from rupee depreciation

1). Raw material imports FY11 146 Cr. This is ~50% of RM and ~36% of Sales. Rupee has depreciated by more than 16% since Sep 2011. Astral had taken a 3.5%-4% price hike in Q2. In Oct you had taken a 2.5% hike and expected 3-3.5% in Nov.

_What is the cumulative price hike effected by the company in FY12 till date? Is it already at ~10% price hike levels! _

If Astral made sale of 100, Its RM import would be 36. Depreciated 16% (~42) would mean your margins reduce by 6%. Since you have affected a 10% price hike spread over Q2 & Q3, does this mean you are more or less protected on the margins front from the rupee depreciation effect so far? (Margins may well slide for other operational issues)

Should the Rupee depreciate further, is there room for more hikes, how much can you really pass on? Have you taken any more hikes beyond the 10% already?

Stable margins in foreseeable future

1). Margins have been on a declining trend over the last few years. From 18% in 2008 to 13-14% in FY11. And FY does not look to deliver more than 12%

Where do you seen margins stabilizing in the near to medium term?

Competition

1). Supreme tie up with Kaneka. Meghamani JV/factory wih Kaneka for 20000 MT

Please give us your sense of market developments. Who do you see as your most significant competition, and why? Howâs it on the pricing front with Kaneka sourced products? Do you see any margin pressures developing due to heightened competition?

Realty/Infrastructure slowdown

1). Have you seen any impact on the ground so far? How confident are you of delivering 30-35% growth in the coming 2 years?

Promoter Shares changing hands

1). Mr Nimish Dalal selling his stake to Mr Engineer in open market transaction.

Mr Nimish Dalal had also earlier tendered his resignation as a director of the company. Is this a fallout of the Lubrizol relationship? Kindly explain the reasons behind the transaction and the timing of these transactions.

Lubrizol relationship

1). Do you have anything to report on developments on this front? When can we expect a formal announcement of progress on this front?

Hey Guys,

The Astral job is done. well almost!

Today’s free-wheeling concall discussion - Astral Poly Technik Management Q&A, Dec 9 2011 is transcribed in full detail for your attention!

Please go through and revert with comments on what you make of the current situation.

Do you think it is business as usual - the overhang on the stock -is a temporary situation-which one should take advantage of? Or, it is better to wait, there will me more shocks down the line, as the larger market seems to be expecting?

With much data on the table, Look foward to reasoned views? Why? or why not?

-Donald

I think the troubles might continue for the company for some more time unless the rupee strengthens all of a sudden.

Price hikes taken by the company seems to be comforting for the investors but it needs to be seen what the competition has come up with. Whether they too have raised prices or not.
Regarding the scenario of margins I think as the management also accepted days of higher margins may be over since competition also seems to be hotting up. The only way for the company would be to continue to grow its sales consistently and that would be by continuous capacity expansion and launch of new products which need to succeed.

I think the initial charm of the company may be lessening to some extent.

The feel that I get looking at the problems faced by the company and the competition turning on the heat is that there may be better options for investment elsewhere in the market. I would love to buy this one only when it becomes real cheap or else keep watching developments for another couple of quarters.