Astral Ltd. (Earlier: Astral Poly Technik Ltd.) ~ Leading Pipes & Adhesives company

Supreme and other PVC majors have been making noises about CPVC since a few years. Scaling up is dependent on availability of the CPVC compound - which they have to source from NOn- Lubrizol sources - Akamei France, and another Japanese company.

So far we have seen/heard that the reason scale up is not possible is because the alternate manufacturers are not able to commit to supplies in bulk!

Please let us know what capacities Supreme is talking about. Last I had heard of any activity was DCW setting up a plant for 10000 MT, with Akamei and that hasnt happened.

lets keep a track!

Read the Annual reports for Supreme Industries and currently going through Texmo Pipes. Both have started CPVC pipe manufacturing. Looking at the dominant status of Supreme in pipes and their distribution strength, I am pretty sure they will be scaling up pretty fast. Texmo is a small company and has also started CPVC manufacturing.

Info from Supreme Q2 Conf Call

Supreme last year did 102 cr from CPVC and expects to do 160 cr this year; So even they are growing fast confirming the Astral management thesis that the market itself is growing v fast and there is enough opportunities for every one. Their current capacity is 26000 tons. They source CPVC from Kaneka (Japan) and are the largest customer for Kaneka in India (Kaneka has 4 other customers in India who together buys around 50% of what Supreme does in volumes)

Astral ofcourse remain the market leader as on total revenues expected of 550-600 cr this year 360-400 cr should come from CPVC. But Supreme is potentially their biggest competitive threat with their wide distribution network.

Just to add

Supreme says Astral and Ashirwad are bigger than them. So i guess the Top 3 in market share are 1) Astral, 2) Ashirwad and 3) Supreme in that order.

If you guys have not seen this, you should.

http://www.moneycontrol.com/livefeed_pdf/Nov2011/Astral_Poly_Technik_Ltd_211111_LR.pdf

750 lakhs of forex loss for Q2, 2011, while Net profit for the quarter is Rs 884 lakhs.

The facts have changed - should we change our conclusions too? I was expecting a forex loss, but not to wipe out almost an entire quarter’s profit.

Views invited.

Disc: Am invested and like the stock (recently Promoter-Director Mr&Mrs. X Engineer have increased their stake too).

Well the losses were not debited from p&l ,but shown with results.Further Mr Engineer has purchased stake from another promotor only & not from open market.

http://www.moneycontrol.com/livefeed_pdf/Nov2011/Astral_Poly_Technik_Ltd_211111_LR.pdf Link: http://www.moneycontrol.com/livefeed_pdf/Nov2011/Astral_Poly_Technik_Ltd_211111_LR.pdf

Hi,

Let mecontributesomething meaningful to the forum by adding my bit of scuttlebutt research done in Hyderabad.

I checked with builders, big and small and with 5dealersin the main market.

ALL of them gave good feedback about CPVC pipes, both Astral(APL) and Ashirwad(ASH) and how they are the future and how everyone is demanding CPVC instead of PVC. This is already known.

When I had pressed them for the better one, ALL 5dealerssaid that ASH zyada biktha hai.

I heard the same thing from builders too. They said ASH is cheaper compared to Astral andquality-wise both are good. They said they prefer ASH which has been there since a long time and as the brand is established among the builders community. They also said that many other brands are coming up with CPVC, but ASH and APL are widely used and established ones. I got a similar info from my friends in Chennai.

When I checked about the market pentration of APL and ASH, I had to conclude that Ashirwad has penetrated more in the South, may be coz it’s in Bangalore. I guess that is the reason Astral are expanding in TamilNadu.

Views invited.

Regards,

Sandeep

I see a lot of these pipe shops advertise supreme lifeline CPVC nowadays.
The advertisement is quite prominent in yellow background and red colored letters covering the all the outside walls of the shops. Astral is reduced mere board hanging in the corner in some of the shops.
I saw 7-8 shops in bangalore like this.
Looks like supreme industries has started going big here.
Anybody else noticed this ?

I saw another auto rickshaw advertising krishi polymers.
http://krishipolymers.com/

company announced sept qtr review report. Stock is continues downward trend !!! Any fundamental change ?? Is it worth to add this level ? or wait for bottom out ? kindly update the view

http://www.bseindia.com/xml-data/corpfiling/AttachHis/Astral_Poly_Technik_Ltd_211111_LR.pdf

Extremely high volumes (10x 2 week avg) at NSE on this counter. Delivery % seems to lower at around 75% (dont know how to get nse avg trading vol for a stock).

Todays high volume with down trend is clear indication more downfall left in the counter. How will impact one promotor selling and other promotor buying impact company !!! Any tug of war bettween promotors !!!

http://www.traderscockpit.com/?pageView=symbol-analysis&company=Astral+Poly+Technik+Limited&symbol=ASTRAL Link: http://www.traderscockpit.com/?pageView=symbol-analysis&company=Astral+Poly+Technik+Limited&symbol=ASTRAL

See if this helps.

Hi Donald,

Astral had around 8cr loss in Q2 because of forex which they did not take into account in P&L.
That is almost a quarter’s net profit.
We are midway into Q3 and rupee is still sustaining at 52 odd levels.
If this situation persists, is there any chance of EPS de-growth in FY12 ?

Regards,
Ananth

Hi Ananth,

Thanks for initiating a proper dissection of the forex liabilities of Astral, and the possible implications. Thanks also to DC Joseph and others for bringing this aspect into focus - what is the overhang on the stock? How severe is its impact likely to be??

1). As I understand it, almost all of the losses must be stemming from ECB Loan. We need to find out the exact quantum of ECB Loan.Debt is 53 Cr as on 30 Sep.

2). The company follows AS-30 accounting norms. So the Forex Loan and Forex outgo as Interest needs to be repriced and accounted for in P&L latest by the end of the accounting period i.e. 31st Marh 2012. The company has chosen to do it at that time.

3). As per AS-30, the company also has the flexibility to capitalise the same (if it is for setting up a plant which is underway) along with the Interest outgo, as long as the outgo does not exceed prevailing Indian market interest rates.

4). Also as far as I understand, the whole loan has to be repriced (even when the repayment is 4 years away) at any point of time. Astral has indicated the M2M as 8.85 Cr as on 30 Sep. (Rupee to US$ was 49, 50)

5). Since then this has moved to 52! We need to know how many tranches amount has been drawn, when and at what levels. How much has been drawn in Oct and November? and any plans of drawing further?

6). A rough back of the envelope calculation might show us this. A Rs 4 differential accounted for ~9 cr, so another Rs2 differential (52 to US$)will account for another ~4.5 Cr.

7). If Rs does not depreciate further and stays at ~52 to US$ for next 6 months, then Astral may have to account for ~13-15 cr in P&L in Q4. and a degrowth in FY12 is possible.

This is subject to following:

a) Interest outgo is higher than 12-15% Corp borrowing rates prevailing now. Is that likely? we need to investihgate, ask other companies for corroboration

b) Rupee stays where its is and does not swing more either way

So tasks before ValuePickr team:

1). Get exact Loan and tranche withdrawl details upto November from Astral

2). Get AS-30 accounting facts on ECB loan accounting - CAs, step up please

3). Get this corroborated from the experience of other Corporates

Get cracking guys, quite critical to get this right, right:) We must be on top of scenario plays - taking the view that it is impossible to predict, is the easier option out, and leads to unpreparedness (read disaster, most times)!

At the same time, in my opinion the business fundamentals remain strong, competitive position is getting stronger both in CPVC and PVC. The company has taken small price hikes in both quarters (not enough to sustain margin pressures). This is a temporary blip in a way as the losses are notional and will get evened out over the next 2-3 years (unless you are a Rupee pessimist for 4 years).

Once we understand the situation, this is something to take advantage of! Not the other way round:)

Disc: I am not an expert in matters discussed above. My views are biased. I hold significant long term positions in the stock and have direct vested interests. Please do your own due diligence and seek help of professionals for your investing decisions.

The operating margins for Astral have been going down since past few quarters. Effectively the company does not have too much pricing power. What it has in its favor is that the sector as a whole is going to go through a tremendous growth.

Since past four qtrs the PBIDT margins are on a downdrift from around 14% to around 11.5 %.

Add to this the forex loss of close to 13-15 crores if the rupee dollar equations stays around 52 and hopefully does not worsen to 55. Net profit for fy 11 was around 33 crores and if there is de growth we can have eps in the range of less than 10. If that happens and the market sentiment remains as it is currently then there could be more pain from the current levels of 140 or so also.

While longer term the growth story looks intact the short term pain might be there for some more time. And with markets going down the way they are, the level of perception of bad news is often magnified.

Today by the way the stock price formed a nice short term hammer like candlestick which suggests atleast a short term bottom at around 126 which was today’s low.

Its on my wait and watch list. After the initial entry at around 120 levels when I posted the details here, I had booked out around 180, a bit early but was eagerly waiting for the stock to come down. But with these bad news around I guess it makes sense to wait some more.

I somehow dont get the feeling that this is a stock which one can keep in one’s portfolio as a kind of number 1, 2 or 3 bet. It can at best be a peripheral bet with max allocation of up to 10%.

Astral will, I think, over time, settle around the 7-8% NPM like the other plastic pipe manufacturers. It cannot sustain margins beyond that. The play in this is the overall growth in the sector. I am not sure how to account for currency movements to a business. A lot of business models can go for a toss based on currency fluctuations. For example, if Rupee keeps depreciating, exports become more attractive vis-a-vis China which has a RMB pegged to the dollar.

Exactly how I feel abhishek.

There will always be issues plaguing the quarterly results off and on regarding forex as well as raw material price volatility. And although it seems most of raw material price hikes are pass through in nature, there is a lag period.

Lets get the discussion back on track:)

We should focus on whether we can benefit from the current overhang on the stock. Is the forex (loss) situation going to get much worse by Q4? Will it then make for a compelling undervaluation case? given the potential that lies ahead of it.

Whether you are considering Astral for the first time, looking to make a re-entry, or averaging down, understanding the impact of forex loss scenario is important. And I am sure we can get to the bottom of this, just as we did for the forward contracts M2M liabilities in PI case…just needs persevering, keep pegging at it. And now we know there are absolutely no risks on that front!

And if Astral can capitalise all or most of the Loan repricing and interest outgo impact, some of the forex loss fears/extent of it may be unfounded too. for example, PI has negotiated an ECB loan $20 mn Libor+3% and drawn 2-3 tranches in Oct and Nov at 49/50+. With Re at 52 to a dollar, they are facing similar issues. And they are looking to capitalise all of that. No reason Astral can’t either. Check out Q15 ECB Loan PI Industries Management Q&A, for clues why that is possible.

It just maybe that in Astral’s case the diff is very large for ex. 45-52 i.e. SR 7x loan amount exceeds the current prevailinng interst costs of 15%, and thus cannot be capitalised.

We need some facts on the table. Naga, Viraj, Ayush?

-Donald

Let us have a cautious stance on stock.As it import’s almost 60 per of Rm requirements, 20 per depreciation in rupee is difficult for them to manage.Though they might be able to renegotiate the terms of Ecb and push the prices of products, Fy 12 is going worse.Of course Longterm story is intact, based on prevailing market conditions stock has downside risks.

On the other side this forex loss is announced at the time of Q2 results itself.But the stock is battered after the Inter se tranfers.Did the market smell any thing wrong.Actually Astral has three promoter groups.Of them Mr.Nimesh dalal and Tarlika Dalal sold their entire stock to MR.Sandeep engineer.Mr.Nimesh Dalal is Research head at Lubrizol Corp.Sandeep is Nephew Of Nimesh undertook training at Lubrizol and started plant.So we can conclude that MR.Nimesh is instumental In relationship with Lubrizol corp.He and his wife sold their entire stake (12 PER) to sandeep.

So we need to Watch few more quarters to take a decision on stock.Meanwhile we have so many stocks with assured growth available at reasonable valuations due to market correction.

Thanks Omprakash. I was generalising the RM import impact.

In Astral’s case the impact of RM import is much more severe. for a different reason. The 6m credit terms with Lubrizol that used to be such an advantage, is a big disadvantage, now with an appreciating Rupee. They have to pay in Dec what they started importing from July, at Dec rates!!

I need break this up a bit, and revert on the implications for Q3. This was not so apparent in Q2 results - I need to understand why? Rupee slid from 45 to 49 in last 15 days of Sep, right. So technically speaking at 30 Sep 2011, the company should have been paying up (at Sep rates 49) for all imports from April 2011.

But clearly, that was not the case - or was it? A 10% hike in RM costs was not seen in Q2. Infact it was marginally lower (71.24% of Sales) than Q1 (72% of Sales). As far as I know in both Q1 and Q2 the company had effected 3-4% hike in prices.

Please help in trying to understand this aspect clearly.

Thanks

-Donald

Another contributor for the stock tanking may be because of the auditors report that came out with their highlights on the forex losses. It sort of portrays that the company may have been trying to brush the forex losses aside and hide it in the BS.

http://www.bseindia.com/xml-data/corpfiling/AttachHis/Astral_Poly_Technik_Ltd_211111_LR.pdf