http://www.chini.com/presentation-12.pdf
Good presentation (Jan 2013) pre the policy changes.
The Indian govt wants sugar mills to focus on exports
I agree with what Hitesh said.
IF we can predict the cycle correctly, we should buy the worst player (the high cost one with good debt) & not the best one.
The reason is simple-
Assume A & B are two producers⌠Aâs cost is 28Rs/kg & Bâs is 32Rs/kg & current price is 33Rs/kg.
So, A makes 5 Rs/kg & B makes only 1.
Now we predict prices to go up to 40Rs/kg.
Then A will make 12Rs/kg & B will make 8 Rs/kg.
So Aâs earnings will more than double while Bâs earnings will become 8 times.
So, better to buy bad business IF we can predict the cycle.
But the questions is Can we accurately predict the cycle?
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Having burnt my hands in Balrampur before I was tracking it closely to see at what levels can I re-enter. I think one needs to understand how sugar works internationally. From what I have seen is that internationally sugar prices are running low, productions high. Recently government had to hike sugar import duty from 10% to 15% to protect the local industry, dollar appreciation must have also helped here but only a bit since currencies of sugar exporters to depreciated, Brazil being the largest producer and exporter of sugar with . For more details on sugar imports/exports
http://www.fas.usda.gov/psdonline/circulars/sugar.pdf.
I would still not recommend entering sugar stocks for specifically two reasons:
a) Price paid to sugarcane farmers is very high, due to this the local industry will always have a threat from imports.
b) Even if there is a fall in sugar production internationally thereby causing an increase in sugarcane prices I do not see Indian industry able to exploit it due to high input costs.
Thanks Anant for your views/caution.
Like to emphasise that at the moment we are only trying to study the issues - not making a strong case, either way. Investing calls are always based on incomplete/imprecise information - the trick for us is to weigh the odds carefully. I have learnt the more skillful investors are - the more refined is their sense of probability - how heavily stacked are the odds - and therefore where do the odds lie!!
Coming back. I did read somewhere that Sugar export controls are no more there, and companies are free to export. I would have thought Indian sugar exports should have also become somewhat competitive - due to the hugely depreciating rupee - and inventory surplus in India should have reduced. Can anyone throw more light on this?
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Some answers received.
1.Sugar-cane price is not relevant and has its own cycle.UP and south will also not make much difference asUP prices are always 2-3 Rs higher which will compensatefor lower yield in UP :-).
2.I guess currently indian sugar export is not competitive evenwith rupee depreciation. See in London refinedsugar (not raw) is today traded at $492/T which meansat USDINR 63 around Rs. 31.49/Kg against Indiaâs wholesaleprice of 33 Rs/Kg in NCDEX and production cost ofRs. 36/Kg.
Once we see rise in Sugar prices internationally whichis down 60% from peak of 2011 we will see exportgoing up.
And one more question pops up:)
Do we know what is the pending Arrears liability with major sugar mill companies? And how do they handle/plan to handle dictat of state governements (like in UP currently) to clear the Arrears immediately??
What is the fallout of something like this? (assume this is certainly not a new phenomenon)
1.Sugar-cane cycle.UP asUP compensatefor 
.
Donald****can you please explain your remark on âmaverick regressive state policiesâ in UP? Apart from keeping State cane prices much higher than FRP, is there anything else? has the UP govt. actually asked millers to clear arrears or is it just something that can happen in future?
would like to understand this âUP factorâ well, in the context of Balrampur Chini
I presume if the govt. forces to clear arrears, that will reflect in greater working capital, which will increase interest cost for Balrampur Chini by about 70 cr. Also they have 171cr receivables from UP state which in the worst case scenario they may have to write off.
**
**
goup makingmoney. TCD,Implies increasecompanyâs
I am not sure I understand this calculation. 76500 TCD is 76.5K tonnes of sugarcane crushed per days. That, at 9.5% yield will give about 7200 tonnes of sugar per day. assuming 250 working days in a year, with 100% capacity utilisation that is just over 18 lakh tonnes annually. Re. 1 increase in sugar price translates to about 18 cr. operating profit annually for Balrampur.
However, they are hardly at full capacity utilization. they managed only 7.7 lakh tonnes of sugar (vs 18 lakh estimate above).
1 Like
I
** âŚapologies. I now understand that I was missing a zero. **
produce translates into 77 crore operating profit per 1 re. increase in sugar price.
**
**
Bhupesh Bhandari & Virendra Singh Rawat****September 13, 2013Last Updated at 21:50 IST, Business Standard
Crisis in sugarland
Politics may spell doom for Uttar Pradeshâs sugar mills, say authors. Will Akhilesh Yadav rise to the occasion?
The communalriots in Muzaffarnagar in Uttar Pradesh are being watched anxiously by sugar barons in Mumbai, Delhi and Kolkata. The riots have dented the image of the Akhilesh Yadav-led Samajwadi Party government. With general elections a few months away, the disaffection needs to be quelled quickly. Otherwise, Samajwadi Party will get marginalised in national politics.All told, sugarcane farmers are crucial in about 30 Parliamentary constituencies in Uttar Pradesh. So, it is possible that Akhilesh Yadav, with the blessings of his father and Samajwadi Party patriarch, Mulayam Singh Yadav, will use the brahmastra in his armoury to win over the farmers: raise sugarcane prices.
Sugarcane prices are regulated in order to shield farmers from the âvagariesâ of market forces. Since almost seven million families draw their livelihood from sugarcane in Uttar Pradesh, what should have been a simple administrative exercise has become a political tamasha. Every year, the Commission on Agricultural Costs and Prices, orCACP, in New Delhi suggests a fair and remunerative price, or FRP. Uttar Pradesh announces a state-advised price, orSAP, which is always higher than FRP (_charts 1 & 2_). This is what thesugar millspay the farmers. It works beautifully: while the party in power walks away with all the credit, the mills pick up the bill for the largesse.
Mills usually start crushing sugarcane after Diwali. The state announces SAP shortly before that. This year, mills have been lobbying hard that any increase in SAP will be fatal for them. Thatâs because, thanks to high SAP in previous years, they have run up arrears of Rs 2,500 crore to farmers. The arrears were still higher, about Rs 4,000 crore in July, when the Allahabad High Court, acting on public-interest litigation, directed the Uttar Pradesh government to settle the dues within six weeks. The state has now issued recovery certificates against five mills. (Such strong-arm tactics are nothing new for the mills; sugar stocks were seized and some personnel arrested over non-payment of arrears in 2007-08.) All mills reported losses in the quarter that ended on June 30, 2013: Bajaj Hindusthan (Rs 157 crore), Mawana Sugars (Rs 40 crore), Dhampur Sugar Mills (Rs 20 crore) and Balrampur Chini Mills (Rs 9 crore). In June, the Siddharth Shriram-controlled Mawana Sugars had informed the Bombay Stock Exchange that it will file a reference with the Board of Industrial and Financial Reconstruction.
The mills are incurring losses because at last yearâs SAP of Rs 280 a quintal, given a recovery of 9.2 (kg of sugar produced from a quintal of sugarcane) and conversion cost of 25 per cent, they produced sugar at Rs 36 a kg, whereas the market price of sugar is below Rs 31 a kg (_chart 3**_). It has tumbled Rs 2 in the last six months and Rs 5 in the last one year. (Thatâs because mills are sitting on stocks of 8 million tonnes, as against the projected demand of 23.5 million tonnes for the year. Sugar exports, which would have eased the pressure on prices, arenât allowed.) As a result, the mills incur a loss of Rs 5 on every kg of sugar they produce. The efficient ones cut the deficit by up to Rs 2 through sale of byproducts like bagasse, molasses, press mud and co-generated power. (Allâs not well here too. For instance, Uttar Pradesh Power Corporation owes DCM Shriram Consolidated as much as Rs 500 crore in payments.) That still leaves a gap of Rs 3 per kg. With a capacity of eight million tonnes per annum, this translates into an annualised loss of Rs 2,400 crore. âI donât expect to report profits for at least three more quarters,â says a visibly-anguished owner of a chain of mills.** âIf SAP is raised, I see at least a third of the mills dying out.â
Such is the situation that banks are reluctant to lend them any more money - not even for working capital. âWe are cautious and will not offer fresh loans till there is clarity on which way the business is moving,â says an executive of a public sector bank. âWe are monitoring the situation and will evaluate the business before lending afresh,â adds a State Bank of India functionary. âThe banks,â says Vivek Saraogi, managing director of Balrampur Chini Mills, âhave raised the red flag on Uttar Pradesh, not on the sugar industry.â Investment analysts have downgraded the mills. As a result, sugar stocks have slumped in the last one year and the net worth of sugar barons has seen serious erosion, in some cases by over 50 per cent.
âThe sugar industry in Uttar Pradesh,â says Ajit Shriram, deputy managing director of DCM Shriram Consolidated, âis like a patient on ventilator in ICU and the power has gone off.â Every rupee invested in the sector, he adds, amounts to âdestroying valueâ. What also piques Uttar Pradesh mills is that their cost of production is higher than Maharashtra and Karnataka (_chart 4_). As a result, mills from Maharashtra have begun to send their sugar to the north - the stronghold of the Uttar Pradesh mills. Encroachment hurts.
Many mill owners have raised the issue with Akhilesh Yadav in Lucknow. Privately, they say that he has so far been non-committal, even casual, and is perhaps looking for guidance from his father. So, some others have met Mulayam Singh Yadav. At the current sugar price, they cannot afford to pay more than Rs 240 a quintal, they have told him. The bureaucracy is sympathetic, they say, but the leaders are weighing the political options. If Akhilesh Yadav doesnât raise SAP, there is the possibility that Jat leader Ajit Singh may pounce on him. âThe process of fixing SAP will take into account all aspects and incorporate the opinions of all the stakeholders, including the farmers and the mills,â says Uttar Pradesh Principal Secretary Rahul Bhatnagar.
The Akhilesh Yadav government will not run short of arguments if it wants to raise SAP. CACP has upped FRP sharply from Rs 170 a quintal last year to Rs 210 now. The Uttar Pradesh Council of Sugarcane Research has raised the estimated cost of sugarcane production from Rs 123.84 a quintal in 2012-13 to Rs 194 for the current year. The farmers, of course, are pushing for higher SAP on the grounds that input costs have risen. âLabour and diesel costs have increased 8-10 per cent and 10-12 per cent, respectively, in the last one year,â says Sudhir Panwar, president of farmersâ advocacy group Kisan Jagriti Manch. âI think there would be an increase of at least Rs 20 per quintal in SAP.â
Thanks to the uncertainty over SAP, at least eight mills, says the Indian Sugar Millsâ Association, or ISMA, have decided not to crush sugarcane before the row is settled. Most are hoping SAP wonât be raised. âIt (Uttar Pradesh) cannot raise SAP if it wants to save its only industry,â says a mill owner. Some are hopeful that the Yadavs will realise that Mayawati lost the state elections last year even though she had almost doubled SAP during her five-year reign (from Rs 125 a quintal in 2007-08 to Rs 240 in 2011-12), which means that high sugarcane prices donât translate into electoral gains.
Because of high SAP, Uttar Pradesh farmers have expanded their sugarcane crop over the years (**chart 5**_). According to ISMA, sugarcane has become the most profitable crop in the state (**chart 6**_). There are other distortions too. Though 80-85 per cent of the sugarcane that reaches the mills is of âgeneralâ quality, the rest is the ârejectedâ variety with 20 per cent lesser yield. Still, mills are required to pay almost the same for both. For instance, last year, while SAP for general sugarcane was Rs 280 a quintal, for the rejected variety it was Rs 275. âThe disincentive for the second variety,â says ISMA Director-General Abinash Verma," should be at least Rs 25 a quintal." Shriram of DCM Shriram Consolidated says because of an assured SAP, there is no incentive for farmers to improve productivity. âThe crop health is in decline,â he says. Farmers in Uttar Pradesh bring the cane even four days after harvest during which it loses sugar; elsewhere, it is crushed within 16 to 18 hours of harvest.
The situation will ease if Uttar Pradesh accepts the formula suggested by the committee set up by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to look into issues related to decontrol of the sugar sector, headed by C Rangarajan, chairman of the prime ministerâs economic advisory council. It had said that instead of SAP, the mills should pay farmers 70 per cent of the price of sugar and other byproducts, or 75 per cent of the price of sugar. Higher the price of sugar, more the farmers will get and vice versa. Karnataka, in May, adopted this revenue-sharing formula. Maharashtra, the largest sugar-producing state, has started the process to adopt it. All eyes are now on Uttar Pradesh.
Cane price, as a proportion of sugar price, has risen steadily in the last few years in Uttar Pradesh: from 57.1 per cent in 2009-10 to 79.06 per cent in 2010-11, 81.36 per cent in 2011-12 and 88.88 per cent in 2012-13. âWith the rest, you have to pay wages, interest, do maintenance et cetera. How is it possible?â asks a mill owner. Saraogi points out that in no major sugar-producing country is the ratio more than 65-67 per cent. If the Rangarajan formula is not accepted, mills have demanded a subsidy of Rs 40 a quintal from the state, or assistance to raise a soft loan to pay off the arrears of Rs 2,500 crore. âIn this yearâs budget, Uttar Pradesh has provided for a loan of Rs 400 crore for the co-operative mills. In the past, this money has always been written off. It can be used to pay the interest of Rs 300 crore the mills will accumulate if they take loans to clear the arrears,â says ISMAâs Verma. Over to Lucknow.
Hi All,
I was checking the historical stock price data in moneycontrol
| HIGH | LOW | |||||||
| 1 yr | 2 yr | 5 yr | Max | 1 yr | 2 yr | 5 yr | Max | |
| Bajaj Hindustan |
33.9 | 43.79 | 205.13 | 480.35 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 2.85 |
| Triveni Engineering |
24.35 | 25.15 | 143.5 | 195.7 | 10.23 | 10.23 | 10.23 | 10.23 |
| Dhampur Sugar |
75.4 | 75.4 | 158.6 | 158.6 | 27.7 | 27.4 | 19.5 | 19.5 |
| Balrampur Chini |
74.5 | 74.5 | 167.3 | 205 | 34.6 | 32.7 | 29.7 | 6.7 |
| EID Parry | 256.9 | 256.9 | 289.9 | 289.9 | 103 | 103 | 62 | 5.21 |
|
Shree Renuka Sugars |
38.8 | 67.25 | 123.6 | 123.6 | 14.5 | 14.5 | 14.5 | 12.8 |
-
Most of the Sugar stocks have hit 5 yr lows in the last few months
-
Based on this price data, there doesnât seem to be too much difference between well-managed firms and not-so well-managed firms. It is a commodity business with a huge dependence on Policy measures, so scope for a management to make a difference is probably lesser than in other areas.
-
Triveni Engineering has a gear manufacturing business and stake in a turbine making subsidiary. EID Parryâs price is in part due to its holding in Coromandel Fertilizers and therefore may not be a reflection of the sugar cycle.
There were two very good articles about the sugar prices today and yesterday in Mint about the sugar prices and its impact on sugar companies. The prices are expected to remain subdued on account of overproduction in domestic as well as international prices. Also, please find below a link of article by CARE talking about the current situation of the sugar policy and its impact:
Apart from higher sugar prices and promoter increasing their stakes in the company, the major trigger could be the policy change where the price paid by sugar mills to sugar cane farmers will be linked to sugar prices which is followed in many countries like Brazil, Australia and Thailand (also recommended by Rangarajan committee).
In my opinion, the sugar cane prices fixed by states [State Advised Prices (SAP)] for this year would remain high on account of general elections due next year which would further put pressure on the profitability of sugar companies.
I have just gone through 4 balance sheets-of Bajaj Hindustan, Ponni Sugars(Erode), EID Parry, and Balrampur Chini.
Of the four companies, Bajaj Hindustan has the highest capacity. Ponni Sugars is the smallest (only 2.5% of Bajaj Hindustan, EID Parry 25%, Balrampur Chini is 50% approx). All 4 companies have co-gen plants. Ponni Sugars does not have a distillery. The other 3 do.
As Donald pointed out in one of the early posts in this thread, these companies tend to lose money on Sugar, but make it up in Power and Distillery Sales. In this respect, Ponni Sugars is the worst placed, and EID Parry is the best placed, since Ponni Sugars does not have a distillery at all, and EID Parry has higher distillation and co-gen capacities relative to its Sugar Capacity.
Obviously, Sugar is not a great business, because 3 of the 4 companies have diversified away from Sugar. Bajaj Hindustan is loading up on Power, while Ponni Sugars has a stake in Seshashayee Paper (Rs. 11 Cr. Worth), and EID Parry has stakes in Coramandel International and Parry Sugars (worth over 3500 Crores), and other stakes in other Murugappa Companies, and stakes in other Sugar Mills and Sugar Refineries. For the analysis below, however, I have only dealt with the Stand Alone Nos.. As Ayush pointed out to me, ascribing values to Subsidiaries which are never going to be sold is silly. So the only thing I have done is to say that the value of the stake is around 10 times the actual dividend received. So in the case of EID Parry, dividend income has historically been around 100 Crores, which translates to a value of a 1000 Crores. In calculating Shareholder value, I have added this amount. Further, to calculate Shareholder Value, I have further assumed a EV/EBITDA ratio of 5. This may seem on the lower side. But for a heavily cyclical industry, it seems ok.
Based on this, I come up with the following. Bajaj Hindustan figures are for 2011-12, since that's all they have on their website. But given the progress of the power project, probably the balance sheet is in an even bigger mess than in the previous year. Also, if some figures are missing, it is because I could not obviously get them from the Balance Sheet.
| Bajaj Hindustan | Ponni | Parry | Balrampur | |||||||
| Capacity | ||||||||||
| Sugar | 136000 | 34750 | 76500 | |||||||
| Distillery | 800 | 230 | 320 | |||||||
| Power | 117 | 146 | 128 | |||||||
| Production | ||||||||||
| Sugar | 1.16 | 0.06 | 0.6 | 0.82 | ||||||
| Distillery | 1.45 | 0.65 | 0.675 | |||||||
| Power | 8.21 | 6.5 | ||||||||
| Power Sold | 3.46 | 4.1 | ||||||||
| Revenues | ||||||||||
| Sugar | 3453 | 1532 | 2900 | |||||||
| Distillery | 448 | 201 | 198 | |||||||
| Power | 147 | 144 | 218 | |||||||
| Expenses | ||||||||||
| Raw Mat | 3366 | 142 | 1237 | 2518 | ||||||
| Other Exp | 495 | 42.58 | 508 | 335 | ||||||
| Total Debt | 5746 | 100 | 1782 | 1759 | ||||||
| Trade Receivables | 192 | 17 | 215 | 181 | ||||||
| Inventories | 558 | 73 | 782 | 1886 | ||||||
| Trade Payables | 236 | 27 | 215 | 712 | ||||||
| Cash (and Equivalents) | 180 | 6 | 76 | 191 | ||||||
| Net Working Capital | 694 | 69 | 858 | 1546 | ||||||
| Net Debt (Debt-Working Cap-Stake Value) | 5052 | 31 | -76 | 213 | ||||||
| Int Costs | 536 | 3.58 | 79 | 101 | ||||||
| EBITDA | 563 | 29.11 | 338 | 461 | ||||||
| Assume EV/EBITDA=5 | ||||||||||
| EV | 2815 | 145.55 | 1690 | 2305 | ||||||
| Shareholder's Value | -2237 | 114.55 | 1766 | 2092 | ||||||
| Market Cap | 799.125 | 134 | 2306 | 1032 | ||||||
| Dividend | 0.83333333 | 1.60% | 4.5112782 | 4.76190476 | ||||||
Obviously, this indicates Balrampur to be the best buy, followed by EID Parry. Balrampur has a shareholder value higher than the market cap. Parry does not. Parry is spread over 3 states. Tamilnadu has better Sugarcane, but Output does suffer from the vagaries of the weather. But the 3 states in which Parry is present have a somewhat better pricing and payment regime than UP.
The reason I bought EID Parry instead of Balrampur Chini is simple. Sugar is a cyclical industry. Operationally EID Parry and Balrampur have very similar parameters, except that Balrampur is bigger. But Balrampur is concentrated only in Sugar, while EID Parry, through its standalone entity and subsidiaries and associates has various other businesses, which would tend to remove the severe cyclicality in its earnings, and consequently, its dividends. To me, that justifies the higher price paid for EID Parry.
Of course, in this year, all the Sugar companies, and especially EID Parry, are going to report bad numbers. But probably, that is the best time to buy such cyclical shares. If you see the price trends for Sugar, it does not tend to be a one way rise and fall. So it is very difficult to catch a real price trend.
So, there are two ways to play this. Either load up when companies are selling really cheap (as was the case when Balrampur was 34 and EID Parry was around a 100), and then just wait it out. At some point the cycle will change, and there will be a nice windfall.
The second alternative is to wait for prices to go up 15-20%, and then purchase. Of course, in this case the gains will be more muted, but the wait will also be smaller.
Or perhaps a hybrid of the two ways.
Regards
Samir
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Some feedback received by me on why EID Parry is not the best bet in sugar plays:
1). Corporate Governance/Management Pedigree wiseEID Parry is from Murugappa group, a favourite with many senior investors. No two thoughts about that:-)
2). But itâs size is less (34750 TCD) compared to Balrampurand also it is holding co of Coromandel sowhen you buy EID Parry you are indirectlytaking exposure to complex Fertilisers which isdifferent commodity from sugar. EIDâs FY13consolidated sales was 11500 Cr but sugar wasjust 1740 Cr 
2). So when I want pure sugar play and of some size,Balrampur is better.
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I absolutely agree that if one is looking for a pure sugar play, Balrampur Chini is better, and as seen in the analysis above, is also significantly cheaper as a sugar play than EID Parry. It also has relatively low net debt levels.
It is just that it is a cyclical industry. Within EID Parry, you have a margin of safety, simply because the standalone sugar entity is much smaller than the consolidated entity, but you are not paying a lot more for the consolidated entity compared to the standalone entity on pure sugar capacity alone. Also, as said earlier, EID Parry is present in more benigh states (and not a single state), and has more co-gen and distillery capacities in proportion to its sugar capacity.
Having said this, I have also dipped my toes into Balrampur Chini a couple of weeks ago.
@ Ramsaravana - Thanks for the data thrown up. I was planning to do a similar exercise sometime down the line.
I found it interesting to compare current (say 1 yr lows) to the Max Highs achieved by the stock. letâs assume that nothing much has changed in the contours of these companies since the last sugar peak - think it was 2006. it may be reasonable to assume that price behaviour will show similar patterns in the next sugar peak - whenever that comes next.
a) it appears an Investment in EID Parry may fatch us the least returns (though it may appear to be the safest because of cross holdings in fertilisers apart from cogen and distillery; but it also means it is not seen by market as pure-play sugar)
b) Hypothetically speaking, an investment in others may fetch between 6x (Balrampur Chini & Dhampur), to 8x Shree Renuka or 20x in Triveni Engineering to 40x in Bajaj Hindustan
c) The question to answer therefore in my mind - It boils down to what is a better Risk-Adjusted bet? And Why?
@ Samir Shah
Thanks for the detailed work. Itâs a delight to have more folks like you work on the basics and share it with others in the group. Detailed Peer comparison always brings out more perspective to any ongoing analysis.
The things to work on in my mind (if we are looking to take advantage of the Sugar cycle)
a) Where is the potential highest - obviously, it is in pure play sugar; and the bigger the better (?)
b) where is the best risk-adjusted return - this is where I have to work more on
Guys - Please keep contributing. This thread is becoming a nice investigational journey!
Have audited BCML during my articleship stage. Some key pointers :
1). UP has the biggest Sugar Units (but lot of payments made to Politicians/Goons plus external influence on CMP of Cane etc).
2). Weather of Maharashtra is conducive for higher output (humidity helps in sucrose content preservation)
3). Basically once Sugarcane crop is cultivated/cropped, the land gets sort of barren. It takes 6-7 years to get back to normal producing capacity. till then the Farmers produce other veggies on the soil. This is the main reason for cyclical nature. When I visited in 2007 (December is the season for Crop Cultivation), the cultivation was on a high cycle in UP.
4). Shree Renuka had a nice model of leasing Sugar Mills (but obviously now with the Brazil acquisition things are not as good)
5). Both BCML and Bajaj Hindusthan are managed by Punters. Promoter buying can be a key indicator of promoter buying, but more often then not, its promoter holding is managed indirectly.
6). Financials cannot be trusted.
7). Technicals can be used considerably for gaining info on buying.
If any other info is required, I can arrange
Nice work samir.
One thing that stands out is that inspite of capacity being nearly double than balrampur chini (76500), bajaj hind (136000)reported sales figures of 3400 cr whereas balrampur chini reported figure of 2900 croresâŚ
It also has a high value of inventory which should aid valuationsâŚ
For shree renuka, there was some buzz of them selling part of the stake of their Brazilian subsidiary to some PE players to reduce debt⌠If they can somehow pull it off, and reduce debt materially it can be an interesting play bcos of its presence in both India and brazil plus the sheer size of its operations.
regards
hitesh.