ValuePickr Forum

Selecting a broker

@ashwin 0.3% with Icici direct is very good. Of all the online services I have tried, it is easily the most refined. However, you do need to allocate money in your bank account before any delivery trade. This means that while it still gathers interest till the payin, you cannot use the money. Also, these guys like float. For example, if you trade derivatives, if you need to pay MTM margin in the evening, but if you have MTM margin in your favour, you only get it in the morning. Effectively, they get free float.

I am really surprised that Religare allows T+7 to settle payment, For one, the exchange is on T+1, so in effect the broker is funding you!!. Also, they run great risk. If you don’t pay on T+7, and in those 7 days if the value of your purchases have fallen, they become liable for the difference, Pls check as to what the catch is here, Do they take some collateral or deposit in advance?

@aksh, the way the bank account works with sasonline is as follows. You need to transfer the money to your broking account at sasonline through NEFT. They allow you to keep trading till your balance (100% deduction for cash and carry, and appropriate margin for margin trades and derivatives) is above zero. For margin trades, they also automatically give you around 50% collateral value for the stocks lying in your beneficiary account.

You can transfer money to your broking account by NEFT transfer from your designated bank account, or through Atom, which is an online payments service. Atom charges ten rupees per transfer. My banks don’t charge me for neft transfers.

After you finish trading for the day, you can request for a payout for the excess money in your account(including credit from sales). Pay out requests upto 5.30 pm into Hdfc bank accounts are credited the same day. If you use another bank, you get credit the next day. So with an HDFC bank account you get the float. With other banks, they get the float.

This process is simple and reliable, though a little crafty(you need to log on to their back office).

The stocks you purchase with Sasonline lie in your client beneficiary account. You can sell them directly through sasonline. If you wish to transfer them to your linked demat account, you need to log on to the back office, and request transfer. It takes two days for the stocks to get credited to your demat account from your client beneficiary account. As such,you could just keep them in your client beneficiary account, but I transfer the shares I intend to keep for a relatively long time (i.e. more than 6 months) to my demat account. Just safer that the broker does not have access to them.

If you want to sell shares in your demat account, you need to send a slip to your DP mentioning that you want to transfer shares from your DP to your client beneficiary account. If you have a demat account =with sasonline, the process is simpler I guess. But my DP is HDFC, and so I need to send a slip with the shares and quantities to my bank. In my case, the RM comes along and picks it up. But I still have to call her. So I simply keep the shares I am likely to sell in my client beneficiary account. This makes the process simpler.

@Samir,

Thanks, your detailed reply really helps. I think It’s a good idea to have multiple trading accounts, the one with low brokerage can be used for short term trading activities for large volumes orders. I also feel and agree with you to have some de-link up of broking/trading account and demat account. I had had some bad experiences with IDBI Capital wherein they have executed my single order multiple times because of some issues with their online trading system and they have no clue about it…they don’t have proper checks and balance in place.

@Ashwin,

If ICICIDirect is offering 0.3% for delivery, It’s good offer as they offer GTC as well which can be really useful, so let me ask for the same bargain from them as I’m having privilege acc with them (You get better service with privilege :slight_smile: ). It surprises me as well that you are able to carry out transaction without funds in your trading acc and you get 7 days to settle it. Are you sure there isn’t any catch? Let me check with IDBI guys tomorrow.

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@ Aksh, Samir,

Religare charges me 0.6% for brokerage which is definitely on the higher side and they aren’t willing to negotiate down. The catch (as far I saw for the past year) is that you can place orders only upto 100% value of our existing holdings. For eg, the MTM value of my stocks is Rs 100,000, then I can place orders only upto Rs 100,000. Also from T+5, I can’t place orders and on T+7 they will square off positions with 21% interest from day one. Other catches are their trading software costs Rs 999/year and phone trading costs Rs 10/share plus 0.6% brokerage plus other taxes. There is no collateral or upfront deposit that I’ve offered. I shall ask again my broker if there is any catch that I’m not aware of. I’m happy with Religare but for the 0.6% charge.

@ Samir,

So with ICICI, I need to have Rs 20k in account to place orders upto Rs 20K, right? Is it automatic or should I instruct that this portion of my balance is allocated for trading. So there is no way that I can make payment after the order is executed? For eg, can I place orders of 100 shares of ITC @ Rs 305 without balance and if the order gets executed, then I make payment that day or by the next day? If not I’m incurring opportunity loss as for a GTC order of say Rs 40k, I always need to maintain balance of Rs 40k always and I could’ve parked this funds with a liquid fund earning me 9% interest.

@Aksh,

What service/features do I get with a privilege account?

@Ashwin

OK…So Religare provides you credit against your holdings at 21% interest rate…in that case what if let’s say…you have bought stock A on T for Rs. 1,00,000 against your holdings of stock B…in between T+7, that is, before your orders gets settled, price of stock B as well as Stock A, declines by 75% and you refuse to pay for the settlement…how does Religare recover the settlement money? Are you sure they don’t keep any margin like credit of 80% of your holdings…and don’t they charge you 21% interest from the day you place an order whether it’s executed or not?

Nothing special but ICICI keeps privilege desks at their branches wherein you’ll get priority over ordinary customers and your request will be promptly served…As I’ve this Acc for a long time, It’s been converted to Privilege one.

@ashwin

OK, so religare in effect uses your existing securities as collateral. The disadvantage is of course, that you can’t sell these in a hurry, but I guess that is ok. Exactly the same system is followed by Kotak Securities too, in a 3 in 1 account. I could negotiate them down to 0.25% too. They also have a web, desktop and mobile version, though the the web version

as nice as ICICI DIRECT.

Your understanding of the ICICI system is correct. On your GTC orders, the money is blocked before

executed. It still earns the 3.5% on your savings account. You cannot place an order on HDFC Securities or ICICI Direct without having the full cash margin (for Delivery trades it is 100% of the order value) required for the order blocked in your bank account.

Regards

Samir

@ Aksh,

@21% interest is charged only when I don’t settle payment by T+7. Otherwise there is no interest. It is immaterial what happens to other stocks after the order is executed. I normally make payment within T+4/5 so didn’t had to face those scenarios yet. I’ve to make payment for the stocks I bought plus costs and it does not matter what happens to other stocks in my holdings even 75% drop should not matter as long as I make payment within 7 days. There is no other charge.

@ Samir,

I asked Kotak too. They aren’t willing to negotiate. 0.49% brokerage unless I pay upfront margin of Rs 100k or more. Declined as I will incur opportunity cost. No point in ICICI too as 0.6% is better than having to give away float when I can invest it. As you have said, I’ve no issues to sell what I’ve bought yesterday as I don’t sell. Only buying happens. Thanks for the patient answers to my silly queries.

icici has prepaid brokerage plans - where they take money upfront and refund you when you trade. Posting table below. Hope it shows up properly

Brokerage Charges
Prepaid Plan
()
Total amount with
service tax
()
Cash
%
Margin
%
Futures
%
Options - (Per Lot)
()
10,000.00 11,236.00 0.45 0.04 0.04 70
25,000.00 28,090.00 0.35 0.035 0.035 55
50,000.00 56,180.00 0.3 0.03 0.03 45
75,000.00 84,270.00 0.25 0.025 0.025 35
100,000.00 112,360.00 0.2 0.02 0.02 25
200,000.00 224,720.00 0.15 0.015 0.015 20
300,000.00 337,080.00 0.12 0.012 0.012 15
[quote="sood, post:29, topic:374263620"] > icici has prepaid brokerage plans - where they take money upfront and refund you when you trade. Posting table below. Hope it shows up properly > > amount with service [/quote]

Same for Reliance but with a lot less commitment and better rates

Total tax()

Brokerage Charges
Prepaid Plan
()
Cash
%
Margin
%
Futures
%
Options - (Per Lot)
()
10,000.00 11,236.00 0.45 0.04 0.04 70
25,000.00 28,090.00 0.35 0.035 0.035 55
50,000.00 56,180.00 0.3 0.03 0.03 45
75,000.00 84,270.00 0.25 0.025 0.025 35
100,000.00 112,360.00 0.2 0.02 0.02 25
200,000.00 224,720.00 0.15 0.015 0.015 20
300,000.00 337,080.00 0.12 0.012 0.012 15

Today I had a demo from SASonline and found it to be satisfactory. I hope that their trading software NOW being desktop run would work better and won’t have general issues that we find in web versions. The brokerage rates are also cheapest in the industry. For a buy and sale order of 1 lac, it would cost me only Rs. 18 in brokerage vs Rs. 1000 that I pay currently with IDBI capital with all the problems with their web trading portal. The concern is they operate centrally from Delhi and don’t have any local branches so if you face any major issue it could be a big headache.

@Samir,

They didn’t give a demo for their backoffice software and web version of NOW…does it generate all necessary transaction reports and is it reliable? Did you find any issue with their services and software worth mentioning? Are they trustworthy and reliable to deal with?

Please try Angelbroking . They charge brokerage of only 0.2% for delivery and their online platform DIET is very smooth and trouble free. Though it is very good for traders, investors can also consider as I find DIET technologically superior to most of the platforms available today.

@aksh

The back office software allows you access to all your contract notes, and also allows you transfer of shares to your DP, and allows you to request a payout. It also gives you a list of securities in your account, your financial ledger, and so on.

The only hitch is that the payout request form only works in IE8 or less. I use IE11 and chrome. So I use an add in called “IE TAB” to emulate IE8 on chrome.

Both the web version and the mobile version (at least the windows phone app) are not as functional as the desktop version, but they are ok. The Desktop version is quite powerful and quite smooth.

The service is excellent. If you have a query, the staff is pretty knowledgeable, and they are extremely quick in answering mails, or in replying on phone. Sometimes, my account does not get credited after an NEFT transfer. IfI send them a mail, they usually do it instantly.

Friends

I am an NRI and looking for guidance on experience of others while shifting brokers and accounts (NRE and demat accounts). Essentially:

1). Can I open 2 NRE PINS trading accounts with 2 different banks?

2). If not, then would I have to close my present account (NRE and demat with HDFC Sec) and transfer all the shares held to the new account? What would be the modalities and cost involved for this? Is the procss generally smooth?

3). Is there an option where I can maintain my current shares with HDFC sec and route all new business through the new broker? Would there be any difference in credit of dividends, bonus shares etc, as currently it happens automatically ie dividend gets credited to the NRE account and bonus to the demat account.

Thanks.

Hi VInay

You can have two dmat account, no issues with that not sure about what thsi NRE account is.

BTW no one mentioned Interactive brokers here, I think its a very good broker. Very low rates international trading platform which provides many things like alerts etc and almost every kind of order you can think of, very powerful. and you can trade in us markets also if you want.

There are cons also which are relatively new in india so some basic things are missing like mutual funds and bse trading (only on nse as of now) I have an account and can refer someone if interested.

As i understand you can have only one PIS account

Usually because of RBI reporting the commission is very high at 1%

I think Reliance offers best rate at 0.5% but if you do high volume you might get a better deal

Also NRIs are not allowed to day trades or BTST

Or certain media and retail companies like Vmart

1).

2).

I use TATA Securities. It is just fine.

But I am considering switching to Geojit.

Which offers the best interface, with live graphs etc?

@Samir,

Thanks a lot. Your positive feedback helps. I’ll open an account with SAS, as anyway, It’s good to have multiple trading accounts and I’m quite disappointed with the services of IDBI Capital. IDBI folks also wrongly suggested that I can’t have one demat account linked to multiple trading accounts and they are making all kinds of delays in issuing “Client Master Report” or “Holding Statement Report” which is a necessary documents to open trading acc with SAS linked to my current demat acc.

this is a useful link which has numbers of (bse) clients and number of complaints received for each brokerage firm ( useful link) -

http://www.chittorgarh.com/newportal/broker_complaints_exchange_wise_yearly.asp?ex=BSE&fy=2013-14

i have icici(almost no usage), geojit and may open zerodha. geojit has now agreed for 0.1% delivery brokerage.

bad thing abt zerodha is that it doesnt give margin for buying in delivery against my holding suppose i have holding of 100/- and zero cash in trading account. In geojit, I can buy shares in delivery of upto 50/- and pay 50/- by next day’s end to avoid the shares getting sold. zerodha doesnt have any such margin. one has to have cash in the zerodha trading account to buy shares in delivery.

Vicky,

Maintaining balance for trading is the only reason why I’m thinking twice about ICICI. I can get an AMC free demat account with 0.3%/0.25% delivery brokerage still I’m sticking with a 0.8% Religare account with a Rs 500 AMC.

I’ve asked Geojit. They say if you trade in btst mode, then you get T+5/7 days to settle payment. Your 50+50 settlement with Geojit is not good. It is T+1 to settle payment to the exchanges. You’ll have to make 100% payment by T+1 normally.

I happen to not trade in btst. Geojit actually gives abt 80% buying power both in delivery and intraday against your holding (I was wrong abt the 50%). You have to deposit the money before next day’s end (ofcourse as its on btst trade).

Zerodha gives zero buying power for delivery-buying against your holding.

*typo in (ofcourse as its on btst trade)

Its supposed to be (ofcourse as its not btst trade)