Saregama India Ltd: India’s premier music publishing label

I do not see these numbers in the presentation. As we know, carvaan is a 25% gross margin product. As advertisement/promotions for carvaan is minimum, good thing is that whatever carvaan sales, generate some PROFITS.

Music revenue supposes to grow 20 to 25%, as gudided.
New music content in both film and non-film categories will ensure music revenue growth.

First Web Series- Mindscapes,is expected to be licensed inFY22. Interesting to see details of that in tomorrow’ss concall. As one web series with 10 episodes, will have similar revenues as of 10 films. In addition, as Vikram said before, web series is guaranteed with profits, unlike films.

All in all as per guidance. Details will be gathered during concall.

Disclosure: Invested.

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Sorry I am not being able to find the split between music streaming revenues and caravan revenues in the Q4 results ppt. Can you please share where I should look, or what the numbers are?

They have been derived and are not in the ppt. Based on the assumption of Rs.5000 revenue per unit of Carvaan. I will update the numbers if I find the actual split of revenues between music streaming and carvaan.

The reason to post this was to question if the 20-25% growth guidance in music streaming revenue is playing out or not. I am not able to understand why there are such major variations QoQ on streaming revenues, as music listenership and subscription should be largely structural. There may be some nuances that I am not aware of, and want to learn.

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Look at music segment for FY21, sales are 385cr. Music streaming segment sales are 284 cr. Meaning carvaan sales are 101cr. Add up units sold in FY21 from presentation and that gives unit cost. Its around 3k inr.

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Thanks - yes it is slightly under 3k. The streaming numbers don’t look too erratic with this.

Q1 21 Q2 21 Q3 21 Q4 21 Q1 22
Music revenue (Cr) 69.6 100.4 114.2 101.3 91.9
Caravan units ('000) 15 81 138 110 45
Caravan revenue (Cr) 4.5 24.3 41.4 33 13.5
Streaming revenue (Cr) 65.1 76.1 72.8 68.3 78.4
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Conference all highlights:
Listen here: Researchbytes.com

Digitization increased due to covid by 4 to 5 years.

Q1 is weakest historically, however, numbers are good due to Overflow. Overflow means when there is actual money come from above minimum guarantee.

The content charge for Q1 is 6.8 cr.

Market share is going up due to retro music is getting popular worldwide.

Music

Royalty: HMV or Gramaphone done deal in 70s and 80s are with Royalty. From 90s upfront payment, no royalty. From 2000s royalty come back. Royalty payment in India is done to Film producers. Different countries have a different model for royalty. Cannot comment on the global issue of artist are paid less. In India, things are harmonized.

Total amount spends on content and marketing will be able to recover in 5 years on a mix of songs as the basket.

Radio case in court, in that there is the only upside. No downside.

The strategy to remix/reinterpretation is as simple/complicated as original content. There should be balance between remix/new music. As new music gives new compositions and ideas.

Ad driven business of music apps will be eventually transform to paid economy. In 20% assumption of music licensing business growth forecast, paid economy is not factored, if this happens it will be huge area of growth.

Retro opportunity size difficult to say. Music is growing rapidly due to apps. Difficult to control piracy in browser based model.

Sanjeev Lila Bhansali deal done based on data model. It is same for all songs. Under 30 age employees listen and give feedback. Models+ human intuitions are used.

Every platform has different models. Gaana/Spotify/wink etc. every time song plays, company get money. On you Tube, get 55% on advertising money. On Reality shows, it is fixed fees, re negotiated every one or two years. On music app, company get 10 paisa per song. If user is paid subscriber, some money from that. All these with minimum guaranteed.

For brands, it will be based on how many days, in India or outside etc.

Publication issue is looked from MD level and will come back to investors, shortly.

We are not in artist management; any artist can work everybody. We do not sign up artist.

IPRS is increasing revenues. Personally (Vikram) I am very bullish. Huge potential for higher revenue. For public event, if recorded music is played, need clearance from IPRS and PPL. For live event only on IPRS.

Total investment (by all industry players) across music, regional, film and non-film is around 550 to 600 cr.

80% is spend on content. 20% is marketing. From total paid amount, 40% charged in first year.

We are no 2 in market. Marketing is very important. Film producers wants to work with company who will promote music very well before movie release. Paying royalties regularly and timely. Entry barriers in music industry is huge due to no. of songs. If you get 5 songs/movie, new players will need 50 to 60 years to be considerable in industry.

Focus is on margin, not revenue.

Music Licensing is biggest contributor to revenues.

PAANI PAANI surprised company also, trended no.1 globally on YouTube and other apps.

Gujarati and Bhojpuri songs market share in recent times is 20% in terms of new releases.

Carvaan:

It is product where people want to touch and feel. Focus will on controlling cost in marketing and manpower. Product to Platform is ongoing work. Once market open from covid, will educate people about caravan as product.

Yooddle & TV

Film business will reach 100cr Revenue in next two to three years.

For movies licensed to OTT, no upside, fixed deal.

COLOR BOMB movie was most watched movie as per ORMAX for released week in digital content, released on Hotstar.

After licensing first license finish (between 3 to 11 years), movie will return back to company, second round not yet open. First movie will be soon available for second round. Money will be flowed to bottom line, as cost is written.

Web series will be launched soon.

TV shoots continue by changing story lines. Revenues were steady. Roza still retains no. 1 position from 15 months. All 3 programs are monetized on YouTube and Facebook.

Disclosure: Invested.

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This is not the same as the understanding that we’ve had so far that the company gets a share of the total revenues of the apps, in proportion to the number of times their songs have been played. What music app is he speaking of on which they get 10 paisa per song?

Fixed share model is only followed by Spotify. Other platforms have per stream model.
This information is somewhere in this thread or in one of their concall/investor presentation.

Most of my understanding of the revenue model from the music streaming for Saregama comes from this article. I haven’t yet seen the information here refuted / contradicted anywhere else, till now. Revenue per stream model completely changes the revenue potential IMO. What happens if the paid subscriber base increases five fold, does Saregama not get a large share of these revenues, and only gets per stream revenues?

This statement does not seem to suggest so. Request someone who understands the differences here to please explain.

  1. Per stream revenue of 10 paisa is shared before also by Vikram. Some Apps may have different model, but to make sense, you get paid per stream or catalog usage. If Saregama give 130000 songs to one app, it demands minimum guarantee. If they get more than that, it called overflow.
  2. In addition, if app makes money via advertisement or paid subscription, they have to share that extra money with publisher. Apps are like a market place for songs, when three is more revenue via advertisement/paid subscription they have to share with publishers.
    One more point I did not included in my notes is that, Indian music app have approach of active users, which gives them more valuation. Sooner or later Indian music apps have to focus on profitability( by charging subscription fees), similar to international music apps ( spotify). As active users do not convert in profitability. Currently Indian Music apps ride on VC money.
    I hope it make it clear.

To my understanding, app shares money per stream or revenue. If they make more money they have to share with publishers.

If you like you can listen to concall link provided.
Disclosure: Invested

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My understanding is that streams of a paid user results in a higher payout to rightsholders than those of free users (I have not been able to find out how much more). So, larger % of paid users listening to your songs results in higher payouts.

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Annual report 2021 notes

Music

Digital has allowed us to put our music everywhere, unfettered by the constraints of the
conventional brick n mortar distribution network. Its distribution is no longer restricted to India and extends to every corner of the world where there are Indian music fans. The company also used this time to build a robust data analytics tool around 100B annual song usage data points. The predictive models built on the back of data analytics help sharpen our ability to pick the right song at the right price from the market. The result of these
initiatives is here for everyone to see. Saregama’s Music Licensing business has been growing at >20% pa for the last three years.

Currently Saregama charges platforms on a per stream basis plus a share
of advertising revenues for the advertising based free service. This revenue has been growing at 40% over the last three years. The experience of DTH in India and musicservices in USA, China tells us that as the consumer evolves, they move from the advertising led free service to an ad-free premium paid service. If the paid subscriber base of music streaming apps in India move from present 2% to 5-6%, the digital revenues can propel the necessary growth to push the Indian music market towards 20% growth. This will result in much bigger revenue opportunity for Saregama, as it contractually also gets a share of subscription revenue from the platforms

An equally fast-growing revenue segment for Saregama is Music Publishing, wherein licenses are given for our music usage (including lyrics and tune) to social media platforms, video sharing apps, general entertainment TV channels for reality shows & serials, new films (for background sync & remixes), 5-star hotels and event managers for playing music in public spaces etc. As more and more video content will get created to
satisfy the ever-growing demand from customers sitting at home, there will be more and more opportunities for Saregama to sync its music. This is even truer for the
digital video platforms like Netflix and Hotstar creatinghundreds of hours of premium content.Simpler technology leads to more user generated Content being created and uploaded on platforms like Youtube, Facebook, Instagram Reels, Josh, Triller etc.
Most of this content ends up using Saregama IP (song, lyrics), thus ensuring a publishing license being taken by these platforms. The recent months have seen a lot more players coming in the fray, thus improving Saregama’s future revenue potential.

New Music
After a long break the company once again started acquiring new film music of Hindi and Tamil films in 2017.
With very few films getting released last year, Saregama relied primarily on non-film music to grow its marketshare. It launched mutiple high-profile Hindi & Punjabi songs under the branding ‘Saregama Originals’, helping it grow both OTT streams and Youtube views. One of the focus markets this year was Gujarati music, where the company has moved from bottom to top 3 position in just 12 months. The other focus market was Bhojpuri, where company managed to cross 450M views on its Youtube channel in its first year itself.
During this financial year,we added audio & video rights of 162 new film and non-film songs, for global territory and in perpetuity.


Yodlee
In the last 42 months, Saregama has licensed 10 of its films to Netflix for the global territory, making it the only non-major studio to do so. Three of these films (Brij
Mohan Amar Rahein, Music Teacher and Ashcharyachakit have been taken by Netflix as Originals).In FY21 Yoodlee delivered 2 movies to Netflix (Axone and Chaman Bahar) and both trended at #1 on the platform. We also delivered 1 movie to Disney Hotstar (Collar Bomb), 1 to Zee5 (Comedy Couple), while our film KD won the prestigious National
Film AwardAn equally impressive achievement was that each of the
16 films delivered so far has been completed “withinbudget and on-time”.
We believe that all Yoodlee processes can be scaled up easily to produce 12-15 films and digital series a year,with each carrying a combination of new as well as
catalogue music, and thus create a strong future-ready company in terms of new IP.


Caravan

With retail networks and e-commerce deliveries shut for many months, Carvaan sales took a beating this year. Company tried to neutralize this negative impact by cutting down on operational and marketing costs. The emphasis was to rely primarily on customer pull than sales push. Company plans to continue with this approach till lockdowns based uncertainity completely goes away.However, the genesis of Carvaan was in innovation, and
evolution remains the DNA of the product.Now, the company plans to extend Carvaan from being just a Product offering preloaded Saregama songs to a Platform supporting 3rd party music and podcasts through streaming.


Overall very bright commentary around music streaming business with medium term growth visibility of 20%+, subscription based model once picks up can be a huge optionality as well. Very high margin 50-60% and high growth 20%+, scalable and operating leverage efficient business line. Can be higher than reported numbers if Carvaan was to be decoupled- mgmt knows it and playing safe on not sucking money off music biz to feed to Carvaan marketing spend - key monitorable.

Yodlee seems to be a 20 - 25% margin biz in normal times at current run rate, last three years they did 10 films - barring covid probably 4-5/yr and they have called out ambitions of 12-15/ yr.

Open magazine is a bleeding segment with no signs of profitability. If and when better sense prevail on promoters to get rid of it would be a positive.

Once Tips demerged entity lists and pure play music performance as comparable peer is out, would be very interesting to see Saregama vs Tips valuations.( mgmt quality not comparable probably, great work by Vikram to bring Saregama where it is)

Invested from lower levels

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Short and sweet for music licensing business of Saregama.

Disclosure: Invested

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Promoter group company’s acquisition of BNK capital mkts - indirectly increased shareholding of promoter group.

https://www.bseindia.com/corporates/anndet_new.aspx?newsid=ac1f5b0b-ac77-41b1-b8de-3a54bda2f9f5

Transaction was in May period for per share price at 200 for BNK ( its a listed entity), open offer is what got them further BNK stake in Saregama.

Looks like Goenka group got promoter share + open offer - put together full ownership of BNK.

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Saregama launched MUSICBAR with 500 pre loaded songs. Review product below.

They are increasing portfolio of hardware slowly. They put only 500 song in music bar is very good step. Why? royalty paid for each MUSICBAR sold will be 10%, compared to Carvaan which have 5000 songs. Remember, carvaan is 25% gross margin product. Problem happened only when they spend aggressively on marketing. Now with lesson learn, I believe, they will not repeat mistake with 99.99% confidence. :grinning:

With festival season coming, topline will grow as economy open up and new hardware launches.

BELLBOTTOM movie songs are also doing good, with 60mn+ views on youtube.

Yoddlee also doing good and recent movie, 200 Halla Ho, is getting good reviews. IDMB rating of 7.8.

All in all focused management with treasure of 130000 songs, going very well with music publishing/licensing business.

Disclosure: Invested.

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Notes from Saregama India’s AR - 2020-21 -

  1. Present across 4 verticals -

Music - owns a music library of over 1.3 lakh songs
Films - owns content IP rights of 61 films
Retail business - Music Bar, Carvaan - has a reach of aprox 30k retailers
TV series - has IP content rights of 6k+ hrs of tv series

  1. Growth plans -

Monetisation of existing IP through every third party digital and TV platform

Transition Carvaan from a product to a platform with recurring advt and subs revenues

Cementing leadership with new film and non film music acquisition across Hindi, Punjabi, Gujarati, Telugu and other regional languages

Producing thematic series and films with strong Story Lines - targeted at the youth. Revenues here are only from licensing to digital platforms. Scale should enable lower cost of production.

  1. Next 3 yr plans -

Aim to garner 20-25 mkt share in new music launch over next 3 yrs

Produce 50 new Web Series and Films

Produce 1200-1500 hrs of new TV serial content

Transition Carvaan from a product to a platform by offering customized audio podcasts ( with daily updates ) covering topics as wide as possible. Also plan to offer 3rd party owned music on Carvaan

  1. Yoodlee Films - creating content for third patry platforms. Has released 16 films in last 44 months on - Netflix ( 3 films ), Hotstar ( 4 films ) and Zee5 ( 2 movies ). Some popular films include - Collar Bomb, Comedy couple, Jhombivali .

Next set of digital customers coming from smaller towns. Company has also started focusing on regional movies in Punjabi, Gujarati, Marathi, Tamil, Malyalam.

Company lays great focus on cost control. Company also hedges its risk by keeping talent costs low by offering profit sharing to artists

  1. Tamil TV serials - Over last 20 yrs, Saregama has created over 6000 hrs of content for Sun TV
  2. Open Magazine - initially launched in 2009, was avlb in 12 cities. Targeted at upper strata of the society / intellectual readers. Currently avlb as e-magazine to enhance its reach beyond boundaries.
  3. 2011 vs 2021 daily per capita media consumption trends in India -

Magazines - Down 50 pc
Radio - Down 10 pc
TV - Down 24 pc
Desktop - Up 25 pc
Mobile - Up 460 pc

  1. Industry trends - Over next decade or two, over 2 dozen well funded video and OTT platforms will fight with all the existing TV and radio channels. And the weapon of choice in this war would be content !!!

Theoretically, platforms can create their own content but in reality, the sheer volume and quality requirement of content will ensure that most platforms work with high quality content creators

Saregama smartly positioned due - century old music experience, twenty yr experience of creating TV series, good track record of making good concept and tight budgeted films

  1. Saregama not only has a rich library of 1.3 lakh digital songs but has also painstakingly built rich meta behind it to stop piracy. It has also on-boarded its songs on every music platform in the world

Has also built rich data analytics to track data points of 100 Billion songs / yr

Streaming growing at a rapid pace. Savan and Gaana now have 15-20 cr active subscribers. Currently Saregama charges platforms on a per stream basis plus a share of Adv revenues. As the space grows, consumers likely to switch from free to Adv free premium but paid services. This can be a huge growth opportunity for the company as the company also gets a share of subscription revenues for premium services like Youtube premium etc. Currently only 2 pc of users use the paid versions of these apps.

  1. Another fast growth area - music publishing wherein licenses are given out to use its music to social media platforms like - facebook, Instagram reels, TV channels, 5 star hotel events etc
  2. After a long break, company has started acquiring new Hindi / Tamil film music. Among non film music, company continues to acquire Hindi, Gujarati, Punjabi, Bhojpri music. In 2020-21 company acquired rights of 162 new film / non film songs

Disc : holding, biased.

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Report on the music Industry by Goldman Sachs

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Here comes the fund raise, while it’s a trait of smart management to raise funds at good valuation - objectives would be key as there has been past instances of mis allocation ( Open magazine is known issue as well as cash flow from Music were feeding Carvaan push)

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Tech-giant Apple uses Saregama’s Dum Maro Dum song for iPhone 13 launch

When Apple turned to Bollywood for the iPhone 13 launch

Picking up on Indian music’s global recognition, Vikram Mehra, Managing Director, Saregama India said,

“Indian music is moving beyond capturing the imagination of its home-audience. The fact Apple used a 50-year-old Saregama melody for its product launch, proves that this music has arrived at a global stage. We are elated to convey that Saregama is now sharing its massive content repository with a global audience.”

we can clearly listen to the tune of ‘Dum Maro Dum’ through out the video in background and also one line at the end of the video…

interesting times ahead ? :musical_note: :musical_note:

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In specific though, Apple used the song ‘Work All Day’ by Footsie in their iPhone 13 ad which uses the 1971 hit “Dum Maaro Dum” :slight_smile:

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