Intellect Design Arena

Some highlights from AR

Path forward per letter to shareholders

We believe that significant growth potential exists in cross-selling more products to our existing Customer base, extending a product to more customers
in the same geography based on the success of the first Go live, expansion to new geographies, distribution of products through the Cloud deployment model and deepening the engagement with key accounts adopting a customer-centric approach to their Business transformation or operations
transformation initiatives. These will drive the next successive waves of our growth roadmap
. Apart from chosen geographies where we have a direct sales presence, we are also expanding into new geographies
successfully through Partnerships/ Strategic alliances. In addition, the next wave of products reaching the monetisation phase – Data and IDX, iWealth, Treasury & Markets and the next stage of growth anticipated in the GeM platform would also further augment our growth agenda

Competetion - a key point to observe

Given the spread of our Product portfolio as well as geographic reach, we do not have a single or a few competitors across the Board. Competition
varies with Product / Line of Business and Geography.

  • In Consumer Banking, our competitors are Mambu, Thought Machine, nCino, Temenos, Oracle Flexcube, Infosys Finacle and TCS Bancs.
  • In Corporate Banking, we have Finastra , Bottomline Technologies, ACI, Reval competing against us,
  • while in Treasury, it’s Finastra , Guava and Finacle.
  • In Insurance, we compete with Guidewire, Duck Creek and Carpe Data

Business Model

Note the contrast in Traditional vs Cloud/subscription model in terms of former being heavy on front loaded revenue ( good for near term performance) vs latter which is superior on life time value and margins as well as business visibility ( superior for long term performance and stickiness) - these both form 56% revenue, middle one which is more services based( more like a door opener to build relationships and eventually push products in either forms)

Future performance

Inferences

  • Pipeline close to 3X FY 21 revenue - approx half of that is destiny deals - where they reach in last two.
  • Destiny deals - 43 deals in consideration with avg 40 cr+ deal size. They are in last two in most of destiny deals - reflects well designed sales lead qualifications and pre sales efficiency.
  • Developed mkt share at 60% - higher margins- supporting upcoming product lines and lower margin emerging Geo - This mix improvement will aid margins.
  • GCB and GTB are doing hevaylifting and next phase products per #6 above for monetization over next 2 years( by FY 24)
  • FY 21 has seen heavy operating leverage kick in with EBDITA increasing many folds vs mid double digit revenue growth. In other words two product lines ( GCB and GTB) has delivered these results - three more product lines are likely to go through similar monetization journey( Insurance & data, capital markets , GeM) - with all five products firing by FY24 they can be be in a different orbit - of course market will reward them much before it happens- need to track it closely.

This 2+ year journey when all 5 product lines start firing , is likely to have some hiccups - such as Q1 22 where commentary around margins and insider trading incident spooked thus realtive underperformance in last 2 months.

Key points to track

  • Mid teen growth in sales and texture of win by products per deal, destiny deal wins and revenue mix from developing vs developed mkts - at 260+ active customers ( avg 6 cr type revenue per customer is quite low - in other word sales efforts are done for entry in door, time to cross/up sell ), lot of cross selling has to happen hence from hunting to account mining
  • EBDITA margin band annualized( 25 to 26%), suspect that given 3 new product lines being in GTM phase will be demanding for matured products doing hevaylifting, there could be quarterly gyrations - however winning trajectory of deals in developed markets and account mining/cross sell should help
  • Subscription linked rev growth and share - there is trade off on going heavy here as impacts short term numbers- a calibrated approach with mix going up balanced way is good for long term and valuations.
  • Any material incidents in perception around governance quality
  • Healthy cash in hand and future cash flows - capital allocation

For folks getting annoyed with insider selling and exercise prices being very low to CMP can refer AR, has transparency on what/when/why of multiple ESOP plans as well as Q1 21( corona times) steep price drop causing revision in policy - again individual calls - don’t want to miss forests for trees. Believe ESOP will help mitigate skill crunch to some extent in current times.

All in all they are at TTM 1550 cr revenue ( licencse/subscription inching close to 60%) , 380+ cr op margins at 24%, near 300 cr profit ( much higher cash generation), Net cash positive. Available at 9K cr mkt cap, potenyialy less than 23X EBDITA, 5.5X sales on FY 22 numbers at mid teen revenue and slightly higher profit growth, and very healthy cash flows.

We have many midcap IT service commanding 10 to 20X sales or 25 to 40 X EBDITA.

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That is the whole point they get ESOPS at throwaway prices and once it starts maturing they will sell it off and move on… why is that the employees gets ESOPS at 1/20th the cost of CMP?

From my own experience, options are allotted in year X at Y price, vested at each following year - say X+ 1 to 5 yrs.

Now over years price appreciate but when employees actually exercise it say end of 1st and 2nd year and do on…the CMP will be 2 or 3 or 10Y. But employee exercise at Y.

IDA case seems bit complicated as Q1 20 price went below 50 and they asked all to surrender options and re issued at lower bands - add to it they have many plans- atleast it appeared there is good explanation and transparency of whole thing in AR thus investors know what they are getting into. ( section 31, Page 127 onwards)

Selling by employees full/partial is regular course for all companies - esp when one sees outsized returns. Even Bajaj finance CEO is known to sell like clock work and market treats them as gold standard.

IDA has much larger options base and afraid pattern is likely to continue as that is by design for last many years akin to a startup.

As long as business delivers and we as investors get our desired returns, something to live with.

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Thanks for explaining so vividly, appreciate your thoughts !

Just because everything is noted in AR doesn’t mean that it is the right thing to do .
Not all investors go through 200 pages of AR, so thanks for highlighting these points here and at the end of the day everyone should know what they are getting into and this forum is the place where such issues or concerns are discussed :slight_smile:

IDA is not a startup any more, their actions has wider impact as they are listed . if the employee’s are getting ESOPS at 1/10th of the CMP, whereas we are paying full price and as soon as the options matures they will sell this (which is their right) but what are shareholders getting in return ZERO Dividend and when the prices hardly goes up by 10 rs more selling from KMP and the investors confidence again comes down and so does the price …

In a bull market where Nifty has added 3000 points in last 6 months this share has gone nowhere, yes before this period it moved from 200-600 giving 3 X returns but there is something more to this company , a beautiful product, technologically were adept , if they tie up with major players they could sell more , they are unable to get entry into fortune 100s because their profile, which is not that great

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Arun Jain Interview with ET Now where he points to opening up the platform for services company (like Accenture, Infosys, TCS etc…,) to build customized solution on top of its Open Finance platform. This is a good sign of scalability and market expansion which is similar to how Salesforce allows partners to build AppExchange products on top of force.com platform.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUIQb6cJbSg

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Also some additional data points shared by Arun in above interview

  • 5th DEAL in a row with value above 100 cr, Product chasm achieved , 4 out of 5 are in Europe hence higher margins
  • Recent Nordic deal based in iKredit/open finance platform - first sizable deal in this product
  • Implementation are 98% configuration ( low code) hence can train freshers quickly and productivity is high - that’s how countering skill gaps in 2-6 year bracket engineers, senior talent is no issues
  • Not seeing wage cost pressure as a product company, we can pass it as part of deal - pricing power
  • growth guidance - Doubling revenue in 4 years, mid teen to high teen in revenue, 30%+ CAGR in profit/ 35% in EBDITA ( time stamp 6:30 onwards) - visibility for 3 year - had to hear it 2 times to confirm - lot re rating can happen if ghey indeed deliver it
  • 2:1 ratio for SaaS+ license: rest - get there in few quarters, similar ratio for Developed vs rest market near term

As of now market doesn’t seem to be fully convinced with the product possibilities, bottomline growth visibility and guidance as well as longevity, mkt focus is more on services companies.

Invested and adding in dips

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I guess most of them are already aware of Arun Jain persona,
But for those who want to deep dive into his mind and his beliefs he has a podcast exclusively.
,
UnMukt

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This is on the ESOP. I work with a 125+ year old company and here employees do have an option to sign up for stock option program, typically at a 20% discounted price as of the plan start date (plan duration of 3/5 years). A lot of things can happen during this 3/5 year period, share price can drop, increase, remain stagnant (or worst company can become bankrupt). If the employee still remain with the organization at the end of the 3/5 year period they can decide to buy/sell//do nothing. Let us assume that the share prize became 3x during this 3/5 year time period, this is when the market participants will see the employees acquiring shares at a much lower price. I do not think there is anything wrong with this, they must have stayed with the organization during the plan duration and could have contributed in the growth of the company. Let us admit that some industries are human resource intensive and there the loyalty will count, lower attrition level will help everyone. Companies can choose to incentivice loyalty by cash handouts or do something like ESOP. I am sure the company arrives at the stock option price based on the standard valuation techniques.

disc: small holding

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Arun here the management is dolling at ESOPS at only 20% of its market price. This is day light robbery .

And if the price of the stocks comes down they are calling the old options and renewing the same at a lower price band… which is ridiculous.

Everyone are getting rich at the expense of the poor shareholders…

If they are so much interested in retaining the talent why wont they give bonus based on the performance of the company , you know why they are not doing it , bcos it affects their bottom-line.

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Yes, I too noticed. I checked on their investor section, they do have a detailed document on ESOP program. It is bit lengthy hence left it after first few pages. It may be a good idea to go through if time permits. The title of the document is “Intellect Incentive Plan Scheme 2018”

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Refer Page 10 to 14

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This is not mentioned in the thread as far as I could notice so, there’s new competition coming in banking tech space in the form of Zeta.

https://www.zeta.tech/in/press/zeta-funding-omni-stack

Zeta tech founders have good tech credentials and they’ve backing of deep pocket investors.

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But if you do a product comparison there’s no intersection. Intellect makes products for the banks core operations, Zeta is more end-consumer facing - BNPL etc.

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Came across some interesting news about Intellect’s Treasury product:

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Global supply chain and trade is a key focus area for digital transformation for all large enterprises today( one can read TCS Q2 press release for deal wins - many of them focus on supply chain transformation)

IDA has announced a partnership with Coriolis tech

Coriolis focus is SME exporters and thus trade financing analytics( supply chain ecosystem)- iGTB customers need these insights to fund trade/supply chain eco system. This is outside Intellect core focus and yet a value add from clients perspective. Good to see quality niche Partnerships being forged which ups the value proposition from business outcome. FINASTRA seem to be existing partner for Coriolis as well.

Invested

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Recently gone through articles which detailed it’s business model operations etc
.

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New deal with Jordan Kuwait Bank. Quite impressing from the attached cover letter:
"3 of the largest banks out of the 6 banks offering Transaction Banking services in Jordan, bank on iGTB, representing a significant 50% market share.”

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Looks like a decent set of results. What stood out for me was -

  1. 37% of the topline is recurring in nature. The company has started reporting Annual Recurring Revenue now, like SaaS companies in the US. As topline becomes more predictable the multiple should expand.
  2. EBITDA margins have finally expanded on a sequential basis after being stagnant for a few quarters. 26% reported for 2Q22.
  3. They appear to be guiding for FY22 revenue growth of >20%. So 2H should be at least as good from a revenue growth perspective.

Hopefully stock will recover back to 750 levels in the coming weeks.

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Q2 presentation

Concall takeaways

  • Financial performance is back on track with impressive growth numbers both QoQ and YoY, with operating leverage visible

  • Emphasis on Products to platforms transition- IMO great team but very loose communication on such important aspects of strategy, plans etc. Neither did mgmt bothered much nor did participants were prepared or had near term financial performance focus only as usual.

  • Arun again was at it - giving 20%+ topline and 30%+ PBT growth guidance - likely achievable but the way it is communicated vs QoQ minor hiccups - need to play safe and communicate effectively - while he deserves full credit for success, starting to feel he need professional team to help on some key areas - these roles are essential to a product/platform organization of global scale - esp in marketing and communications ( CMO, CRO etc).

  • AIF with 100 cr initial fund to be setup to accelerate platforms journey ($75 M qtrly run rate goals)!- again 30000 feet type explanations were given

  • There is a clear disconnect between investors community and management messaging - this also reflects in seamless Q&A experience as well where both sides struggle to understand each other

  • IMO platforms avatar is a brilliant stroke if they can pull it off, appears complex maze with many products and now multiple platforms in mix

  • Upcoming Intellect day will be key to understand strategy better ( dates to be decided - Nov end type)

Highlights

  • For now near term looks bright- Margins are going up near 26 % where whole IT service are reporting lower trending margins - Op leverage stands out.

  • Winning deals in EU against biggies continue to stand out ( Tamenos etc), they highlighted recent Nordic win as a platform win.

  • Q2 end Pipeline over 5000 cr, Destiny deals a major portion

  • SaaS share going up - this is imp as it dilutes near term performance( which is not case in numbers hence calibrated nicely by them) but secures long term recurring revenues ( read it as % of revenue with 10 years type visibility and very high margin thus higher valuations)

  • Operating leverage kicker speaks for itself with PAT growth higher than EBDITA and revenue

  • AIF setup to incubate partner ecosystem around their platform game plan - they smartly played with Infoedge example as well as not doing direct investment by company to avoid reporting complexity.

  • Arun gave many examples of OFFS for growth stagnation, Salesforce- mulesoft for partner eco system, Infoedge- zomato for adjacencies investee companies, Wins against Tamenos etc. Not sure how many were able to relate but IMO intent and effort is in right direction

Lowlights

  • DSO and working capital rising ( India weighing in) - not major per mgmt and have their eyes on it
  • Cashflows bit weaker
  • Increasing maze of products and platforms - need better and clear communication on strategy.

All in all market being myopic should feel delighted with reported good growth numbers, to see conrinued winning spree and guidance confidence. Rightly so they indeed deserve much better valuations having created IP with profitable performance.

Invested

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Is there any write up on the product to platform transition? What does it really mean for Intellect going forward?