Sugar Cycles: 7-8 years of losses followed by 2-3 years of super gains!

Guys…pl be careful about Dhampur…its forming evening star topping out pattern on daily japanese candlestick charts…that too after touching the upper channel line / resistance line…

The international sugar price too has crashed…

Its better for short term players to book profit…let only long term players be invested…

Has sugar sector reached a point that stocks are not going up inspite of hugely positive news…

When all the believers in the sugar story have bought…and no more investors left to convert…

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Dear Mehnaz,

I understand that since you have sold out you want prices to crash to zero in the same manner we investors want the prices to go to infinity. But for the benefit of all community please dont spread panic. International prices are falling because India is not importing. India is not importing is good for Indian prices which is good for sugar prices. There is still juice left to be squeezed as there is still low sugar supply and there are no signs of improvement in the same for the next 12 months.

You forget, i still hold Balrampur.

I am pointing out the technical topping / reversal pattern in Dhampur…and thats just for short term traders…not for long term investors.

I have always said that sugar investing is a momentum game…those who ignore tech signals do so at their own peril.

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We need not chide Mhnaz ji as she appears to be genuine in forewarning the trend. Neverthless LT investors need not worry as global and Indian scenerio is bullish and many Ace investors have of late joined the bandwagon. To my knowledge Anil Kumar Goel, Doly khanna and Vallabh Bansali are not short term traders. It is suffice to see the macro trend on sugar sector and leave the short term gyrations to traders.
Good Luck

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The above pattern appears to me to be a “rising wedge” pattern…those interested may just google this and find out about the implications of such a technical pattern…

I have said this earlier. India’s sugar imports will determine the international sugar price. What’s funny is ISMAs ability to hoodwink even international traders.
Longer ISMA pushes out the inevitable , bigger will be the blow up. I Don’t think govt will wait that long. The deficit is much bigger than previously expected.

That india is going to produce around 20.5million tons of sugar was clearly mentioned in Balrampur conference call abiut 23 days ago…Manoj sarogi said that it was ISMA estimate…clearly, Isma has delayed making their estumate known by almost a month.

Now they are making a prediction on consumption habit of indians…the consumption of sugar un india is going up by 0.5 to 0.75 million tons per year due to growung prosperity. …the ISMA now makes an absurd assertion that rate of growth has turned negative…

Atleast on the basis of anecdotal evidence, i find it difficult to give any credance to ISMA prediction of falling sugar consumption…i think, this story will be carried on till next 2-3 months…

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Dear mehnaz ji, respect your technical outlook

Can you tell me what is the stop loss for short term traders ? having a view upto April 30, 2017

&

What is the stop loss for long term investors ?

Below is the verbatim transcript of M Manickam\'s interview to Reema Tendulkar and Nigel D’Souza on CNBC-TV18.

Nigel: Earlier it was estimated that we should see sugar production at around 21.5 million tonne approximately. Now the estimate is closer towards 20 million tonne. What is your sense of the situation, what kind of impact can we see on prices and how long can this honeymoon period last for the sugar industry?

A: We have been talking about stresses under the sugar industry. Last two-three years we have been selling much below our cost of production so we haven’t paid the farmers on time. So there was a lot of disincentive for the farmers to plant the cane.

On top of that last year we had a drought in Maharashtra, which has termed as the worst in 100 years and this year we have had drought in the south which is probably the worse in the 140 years, the planting has gone down drastically. So our production has come down, so the estimates if you look at it every month it is coming down. Originally we have started at 230 and then we came down to 220 to 210 now we are at 200. So I will not be surprised if we close the year with about 190. There is a possibility, we will have to wait and see what happens by end of March because most of the estimates are not very clear until how many factories are operating. So if you are looking at that, we are tight on sugar at this point of time.

Reema: You are saying that the actual production for sugar year SY17 could be closer to 19 million tonne versus ISMA’s forecast of 20.3?

A: It could be between 19 and 20. That is what I think. So realistically speaking that is a pessimistic view or a realistic view, whichever way you want to look at it – it could be between 19 and 20, so we are looking at fairly a tight situation for sugar in the next year.

Reema: Considering that we are just at the onset of summer demand, Holi is around the corner,what will this mean for sugar prices? If you could tell us the trend that you foresee and currently what are the ex-mill as well as retail prices?

A: Today the ex-mill is around 38-39. Government has been giving a lot of warnings and pushing the mills to sell the stock. So the price is around Rs 38-39.

We are talking about shortage and if we want to start importing sugar, the imported sugar will be coming in Rs 41-42. So if we are looking at imported sugar then we need to allow the prices to go up to Rs 42. So it will be rangebound between Rs 39 and Rs 43. That is where we will probably have the sugar prices going forward.

Nigel: I was looking at sugar prices and in Tamil Nadu, prices have gone from around Rs 3,300 a quintal to around Rs 3,700-3,800 per quintal whereas in the north, it has not moved that much. Why suddenly such a big spurt in Tamil Nadu sugar prices. Also I was reading a couple of articles, international sugar prices have not moved much in the last five-six months, so what is going on that front?

A: International sugar is fairly well supplied. So we don’t see a major deficit in international market except for what is happening in India. So that is why international prices are waiting and they are waiting to see if India will import. That is the first point.

As far as Tamil Nadu is concerned, we had produced a peak of about 2.5 million tonne and this year we are likely to produce only about 1-1.1 million tonne. So we are operating at 40 percent of capacity. So the demand for sugar is high and we are not producing enough. That is why you are seeing the prices higher in south versus north.

Reema: Let me come back to the point that you were making on import. With production dwindling, the carry forward for next year is also substantially lower than what we have had in the past. The carry forward is now closer to 45 days and in the past we have had a carry forward which could havelasted us for close to about 90 days. Do you think we will have to resort to importing sugar?

A: My personal opinion is that we should start looking at importing sugar because we have never had opening stock of half a million or one million kind of stock and I think the worst that we had previous year was 3.5 to 3.6 million tonne. So we would need to import something to have healthy opening stock. People are feeling that next year we might have a jump in production and so we may not need to import but I am not very sure if that jump will happen because the tradition is that it doesn’t jump that fast. So we will have a deficit in one more year before we go to surplus.

A sugar surplus for next year is also a tall claim . A sugar deficit for one more seasonnis very much on the cards.

So if our country does allow import. And international prices rise…I am failing to understand its positive relation with our sugar share price when sugar mills are threatning to delay payments to farmers if import allowed as it will lead to losses for them…so if losses why will sugar stock rise…can some one please guide me on this…what am i missing here…Needless to say i am a bit stressed out due to my deep deep dive in Uppeer and Dwarikesh.

I am down by 80 in upper and up by 40 in Dwarikesh at this very moment…is sit and watch still the call? or is it collect whatever you have and take cover…[scratching my head in anxiety and few hair strands in between my fingers… Damn…phew]

This one says( below snapshot) next in May…does this mean no import atleast till May??

And this one mentions Too late El-Nino arrival may not hurt…

http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/el-niño-seen-arriving-too-late-to-hurt-monsoon-117030900017_1.html

[ Have managed to pull few more hair strands…i guess i better go to sleep otherwise i dont know what i might do…]

Forget about elnino, international sugar price etc. There is a large deficit, reported stock pile is questionable, sugar has clear visibility for 3 quarters. Hold it until September. In September we will take a call. By that time imports would have happened.

Regarding the prediction of reduced consumption,I believe demonetisation could have dented sugar offtake,so there might be some truth to the argument.If indeed consumption was impacted by demonetisation,imports might not be needed afterall

I have no doubt that ISMA is wrong about the sugar consumption thing…i dont think that consumption patterns change so drastically in so short a time…

Sugar prices in india are down due to pressure from the Govt…its jusy a matter of time before they starts rallying again…maybe in the next 2-3 months. The realisation may rise to around 43-45 rupees per kg on basis of import parity. Hence the prospects of one more leg to the sugar rally

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Sir, your assessment has turned out to be correct. Based on sugarcane plantation data, Manoj Saraogi has said (todays economic times), that the production in sugar season 17-18 will rise to just around 25 million tons…

Since i do not believe in fall in consumption story…that will be third year of sugar deficit. India will have 2019 elections with sugarcane farmers quite happy and satified with Modi Sarkar.

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Are you trying to say if till September imports do happen by than prices of sugar stocks would continue their climb upwards…though at a very slow pace which is acceptable…but they would not nose dive like what happened in later half of 2016.

I would not believe anything what ISMA says…as i do not find any logical reason for sugar export in 2016 ( i guess in beginning) knowing there would be deficit in 2017.

Would you have any data which shows how markets reacted to imports in past?? I tried to find but i guess this is some premium information not available on internet.

And with regards to decreased consumption , we will see if prices of sweets or jams or soda/colddrinks do rise this season as sugar itself as an ingreidient is more 80% of these products…

Look at Britannia q3 results. Its not impacted in anyway. Pepsi said it had a slowdown in q3, but for this upcoming season its actually looking at volume growth.
ISMA is involved with the govt to hold of imports as long as possible and when the time comes to import as little as possible.

Please share manoj saraogi ET interview link.

The link is put on moneycontrol by some boarder …

The hindu businessline article from 8th march talks about import of sugar very likely after elections. http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/markets/commodities/the-sugar-situation-could-turn-explosive/article9576102.ece

What will be the impact on sugar manufacturers based on sugar import if and when it happens ? particularly on sales/profit of UP based sugar mills.

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