PMS Funds - India


(Suneel) #21

There is STCG Tax if you book profit in less than a year


(prashantrane2000) #22

If you choose good MFs and monitor yearly I would say 25+ cagr is possible with no commitment what so ever , so why pay for 20 cagr ??


(Vivek) #23

All this feeling of getting 20% Cagr is pretty easy is just because we are now in a bull market phase. when the tide turns only you will understand that its pretty hard to get these rates also.

Also if you are targeting 20% CAGR then why go for mutual funds, you can start a SIP in equity and buy Bajaj, Herohonda, Gabriel India, Vip Industries HDFC bank,and many more are there all these if you do SIP for 10 years it will easily generate 20% returns per year(if you calculate the last 10 years of all these stocks they have exactly done that and much more)


(Karan Maroo) #24

Thanks Vivek. The idea of going in for a PMS fund is precisely this - an individual (like me) might have little or no time to monitor individual stocks like Bajaj / Hero Honda etc. Your point on past returns is well taken; but surely that’s no strong indicator of future returns.

MF is definitely a very good option - but for consideration, I think PMS has its own advantages and should be given the due thought it deserves.


(Karan Maroo) #25

Thanks - however, I think Sageone’s minimum requirement is INR 2 crores.


(Vivek) #26

yes thats true past data cant be taken for granted, but these SIP’s can be set automatically executed and it dosent matter if you have to check it daily or yearly, all the business I have given as exmple has a very long runway for it and disruption is pretty hard in these sectors.
For Example
Bajaj auto : two wheeler penetration in India is still pretty low even compared to srilanka thailand etc and there is only one way for it to go forward. and we can either play this theme with the market leaders bajaj or hero honda

Vip : there are only 3 main companies in this segment and VIP is the leader and whatever growth in travel happens we can make this theme count with luggage segment rather playing with airlines or anyother related stuffs which can get disrupted with new innovations.

similarly all business have a long runway ahead. Now I am not recommending to start SIP in any cyclical or commodity companies or anything which you dont understand thats a BIG RISK. only solid blue chip names and it will provide you 20% plus easily.

MF just does the same thing, the issue is the one which we choose has to perform its as good as picking a winning stock

also you should note I have told 10 years, the reason is you will get a bull and bear in this period, and the returns is till the same. I have calculated these companies past performance from 2007 so its like you entered a SIP just before the recession and still you will make money in long term. Its the mental mode and consistency in doing the investments that matters most rather than picking a golden stock. Stick it what you start and it will reap you good benefits


(sunnysachdeva) #27

@prashantrane2000 25+cagr with MF? i know DSPBR micro and Mirae emerging value has given 30+ but that’s for 1 yr. i doubt we have any fund which has give 25 CAGR for 10 yrs+


(prashantrane2000) #28

For an example Hdfc midcap opportunity 18% since inception and 27% for 5
years , idea is you review your selection every year


(Vijay) #29

Unfortunately disruption could happen to any business. Bajaj could be hit with EV for example. We need to keep a close watch (need not be daily) on all businesses we own. I agree that large companies have more visibility and yearly or half yearly tracking of macros and financials must suffice.


(Vivek) #30

Bajaj could be hit with EV for example

yes it can happen and these companies will be the first to adopt to such threats , their interest is much more than we minorities .


(Vijay) #31

Kodak and Polaroid are classic examples right? They must have adopted to the change. They failed.


(Vivek) #32

all such changes can be visible easily and its not just it comes in one fortnight , Bajaj if they loose market share it will be visible and it wont happen very fast, signs of weakness is always there , you get the monthly sales figures itself .
And comparing Kodak, polariod with a two wheeler is no suitable.

The penetration is low in India, it has to go up. You can complicate this view in which ever way you want.Only time will tell the result. So i can go wrong as well.


(sarangg) #35

The number of people judging equity returns from the last 5-10 years of the bull run are sure to be disappointed when the business cycle turns and stock prices fall, even when underlying businesses themselves post 10-15% returns in earnings.

20% CAGR is not an easy goal by any stretch, and if you can maintain that over an entire business cycle, then you might be the next Buffet!


(Yatharth) #36

Did you join Basant PMS Sudipto? You were one of his friends, I suppose. How has been performance? Checking for 1 year on SEBI site does not encourage much. But SEBI data may not be correct or updated. Can you please provide your views on what you hear or experienced?


( s das) #37

Unfortunately i did a mistake of not joining it .But he is doing very well now. He is an honest man so you can expect lot of transparency from him.last year he did something 35-36 returns after all fees.
Moreover he is an champion stock picker, way ahead of other. After following him for nearly a decade I personally fill I can blindly subscribe to his pms instead of some unknown person whom I don’t know.
Long back he told me he has some number fixed in his head and once his pms reaches that number he will stop accepting new subscription.I have no idea whether his pms is still open or closed for New subscription.I have super confidence on​ him so honestly recommend BM pms. But please do you own research before putting your hard earned money in any pms as past performance is never a guide of future and past performance may not be repeated.


(Yatharth) #38

As far as I understand, he has done very well in 2017. 2016 was a tough year for him due to demonetization and his concentration in MFI stocks. The problem of old portfolio is that you cannot dispassionately sell those that are not performing well or have reached high PE. Basant has a knack of divorcing quickly in a flash and that is his great strength.


( s das) #39

He is superb in removing stocks in a flash. Just cant still believe his agility speed in which he dumps old stocks in a flash. Its commendable. This is his strength.
I have no doubt that if he ever wish to venture into trading we will witness a New Rakesh Junjunwala in front of our eyes.


(RAHUL SINGLA) #40

any views on the vallum capital manish bhandari . Are they shared actual performance or maniplulative .can anyone share the experience if any.


(vinay ambekar) #41

Have a look at Kotak PMS also…attaching their presentation. Good performance.

Infact when many of the funds suffered in Nov-Dec 16 due to demonetisation (and hence give single digit or low double digit returns), they gave 17.9% returns for the period Jan-Dec 16, which is quite commendable.

Discl - am not invested with them.

Kotak PMS Special Situations Value Presentation_June 17 updated (1).pdf (1.4 MB)


(Yatharth) #42

Highly commendable the way they pick the opportunities