PMS Funds - India

1 Like

we need to wait for it to get updated with September, which will change all YTD figures drastically

1 Like

Basant down 21.5%, Porinju down 20.6% in September.
Ask -12.5%,

1 Like

how and where to get this data ? plz share a link if available … thanks in advance

Get the PMS monthly performance on below link

https://www.sebi.gov.in/sebiweb/other/OtherAction.do?doPmr=yes

Sometimes you feel happy by getting REJECTED, I was rejected by one of PMS (due to ticket size) when I approached in mid Aug… now I feel happy that I performed better than at least them including many… hope to continue same before I finally invest with one of PMS (accumulating desired ticket size)

2 Likes

Motilal oswal is the only one showing a +ve return for September. That too 12% on such a high AUM. Is the data wrong or are they doing something which nobody else doing?. And they dont have anything in debt fund or cash.

BM must be down by another 5-10% in MTD October as BFL was one of his top holdings which fell by 10%. Bandhan Bank has fallen by 20%.

That’s roughly a fourth of the total AUM plus maybe more to come in the days ahead.

These are the risks of being fully invested and having a concentrated portfolio which are often misunderstood

Master Portfolio Services of Vallum seems to have gone down by 13.4% but net assets under management has gone down from 297 Cr to 243 Cr. Down by almost 18.2%. Similar stories elsewhere. Question is,
Are there heavy withdrawals from PMS funds in September?

Motilal Oswal PMS is really up as per several investors. There were doubts about SEBI data.

The year and this last 5 weeks have been brutal.

motilal oswal returns are negative 12%, Darshan mehta just tweeted it. https://twitter.com/darshanvmehta1/status/1049604273376354304

Thank you. I stand corrected then. My info was based on certain investor account that showed positive momentum. May be these few were exceptional.

Basant Maheshwari Wealth Advisers BMTheEquityDesk was the worst performing portfolio management firm in September.

I don’t understand why any individual goes to a PMS fund. Assuming all have minimum 25 lakhs entry ticket size, such a HNI would have portfolio in many crores. Such individuals in my opinion should concentrate on protection of wealth rather than growing of their wealth through investments in “risky” small-caps… Some good large and midcap mutual funds should be more than enough. In times of market panic, they can add to their market position. Liquidity wise also they would not be restricted, fund charges also would be much much lesser. Unless the PMS can offer hedges like taking active short positions, which I don’t see them doing…

1 Like

Very simple sir - if you are able to see beyond the selling pressure seen in small and mid caps in the past 9 months, few simple facts will emerge :

a) globally and increasingly in India, mutual funds because of their large size of assets under management are underperforming the benchmarks. Basically investing in mutual funds doesnt make sense to most people, passive investing is much better but then the army of distributors and wealth managers who get paid by mutual funds will still make their HNI clients invest with them. Simply put it just doesn’t make sense to invest in any vehicle which has too much money as expected returns rapidly come down in inverse proportion to AUMs.

b) a small breed of fund managers will always beat the benchmark with such a large difference over long term due to compounding (despite higher fees) that it makes a lot of sense to invest with them. The problem is the find them but then many of fund managers are excellent sales person (and not excellent investors) and entrap the investors in HNIs through suave know-it-all demeanour and talks.

c) an HNI in many case is driven by greed particularly at the top of the cycle when he sees so many people like him minting money in the market and the fear of missing out is too strong. When porunju reports in January 2018 that 2017 has been a 70% year, it has an impact on everyone who was putting up with some safe equities or mutual funds making a paltry 15% - makes people move funds.

Bottom line is investing in pms/Aif/advisory makes a lot of sense but only when the horse you are riding on is good. If you are riding the wrong horse then it’s a bigger problem than being invested in a mutual fund where market returns are what one should expect and mediocrity is the order of the day in most cases.

Finding the right horse however is easier said than done as great sales people are seldom great investors and vice-versa in my opinion. God is rarely than unfair.

4 Likes

I guess the trick is to find people who are likely to perform well in the long term, over cycles, and who are likely to provide a superior risk-adjusted return than index funds or mutual funds. It is not necessary that yesterday’s performers will necessary underperform in the future.
Mutual funds do have tax benefits now though (as compared to a PMS), as tax incidence for the investor is only when she eventually sells the fund.

Though Vanguard has proved that average MF return = Index return-expense ratio, are we sure that it worked that way in india also? Because i find as many as 8# ELSS funds from different companies, predominantly investing in blue chips, have outperformed nifty’s return of 13.6% and earned 16-17% returns in the last 10 yrs as per value research online data.

I considered ELSS funds as they may be indicating the long term investor’s (fund manager) portfolio performance as he is not under redemption pressure and also number of ELSS fund are relatively very less and easy to collect data.

I just want to know whether ELSS can outperform index or not.

1 Like

As I understand, S&P BSE 500 ETF is available, should be a good representation of our market, no?
The expense ratio seems to be 0.30%

1 Like