Intense Technologies

(James Sebastian) #245

Their solution is not just in Digital customer onboarding space, but including customer analytics, billing and metering, digital communication, B2B analytics and Digital identify & customer analysing. Customer Analytics is a huge area these days and lucrative based on how innovative one’s solution is. I do not have in-depth expertise in this space to compare competing solutions and to rate Intense product Uniserve or Uniserve next.

In case, any of the VPer worked with them as a system integrator or used/laisoned as IT expert from the end user company end, we may get better insights. If the results start showing in coming quarters, we may get investor interest back here. Else, I do not think hearing such insider view may be bleak.

(M S S Murthy) #246

No .If any found in due course will put here.

(M S S Murthy) #247

Thanks for the reply.Continue to wait which proved Long. Haven’t sold any from my holding.


Hi @ashwinidamani

While you will need to contact the co for most answers, I can answer #4. One of the most respectable investor in india, Satpal Khattar ( one of the founding investors in HDFC Bank owns intense for many years and his name is still visible in the Sept SHP

This article also mentions his interest in Intense.

Another well respected investor is Anil Sarin and his wife, Anita Sarin who continue to hold substantial equity in the company in his personal capacity. He is the CIO for Edelweiss

Hence the argument that there are no respectable shareholders is invalid

Having gone through all the recent messages in this and other threads initiated by me, my submission is as follows

  • My understanding of this forum was that it was created to thrash out ideas, and not individual investors.
  • Each and every investor has their own investing style which works for them. There is no right or wrong method.
  • The discussion should be restricted to the merits and demerits of the company, and not to who owns it or not.
  • I am sure the founders @Donald @ayushmit who created this forum didn’t want it to be a bulletin board to discuss individuals and their investing patterns. Orchestrated witch-hunts as seen on ITL , Meera , MRSS and Intense threads can be best avoided…as they steer the conversation away from the main subject- the company.
  • Stocks rise and fall many times over a long period. 1-2 years are short periods for long tem investors. Each fall shouldn’t result in brickbats for the initiator.
  • There are many great and clever people here. Many promoters also visit this forum and check what the common opinion on their co is. Instead of discussing individuals, if shortcomings on cos are discussed, it will also help the promoter to know where to improve so that sustainable wealth is created for all
  • Personal remarks tend to poison the thread rather than add value to it. If the co and business is good, I as a investor will make tons of money, even if there are many negative comments against it. And vice versa also holds. Mr.Market is the harshest judge of all.
  • Lets face it. In most cases . each thread is started by someone who owns the stock and wants to highlight it to the investing public at large. Readers can safely assume the initiator wants a higher value for his existing holdings. It is for the reader to do their own due diligence before buying.

I continue to own the co and am looking to increase at this rate.

MCap when posted : 87 cr

(Ashwini Damani) #249

The thread on which you have replied is actually asking some critical questions and is not directed at you.

Still awaiting answers on Point 1, 2 and 3

(Ashwini Damani) #250

At the same time , investors in this forum are grown up and they should also be aware on how to look at things from a operator angle.

Market is known to indulge in shares like Opto, Hanung and Pyramid Saimara.

Some softer aspects of investing are equally required to be shared.

Investors should know how to judge the appearance of a name of Broker in shareholding.

So there are no personal remarks (whatever was , has already been deleted by admin).

Still awaiting answers to Point 1, 2, 3 and 5.


Agree. Lets keep it objective. Will help everyone including me.
Will try and get answers for 1,2,3,5 from publicly available information
Or will ask these in next concall

(insanemaverick) #252

I agree with @thestocklady The criticism should be of the stock idea and not of the person per se. End of the day, lets not forget that it is the individual investor who pulls the trigger and we should be gracious enough to not pass on the blame to the thread initiator. That’s very immature IMHO.

Your corporate governance scuttlebutt (which is brilliant work indeed) would have been much more widely accepted and circulated had you not made a single person (in this case @thestocklady) the target of all your posts. You may call him a below average stock picker, but anything beyond that is slipping into dangerous territory.

Lets maintain the objectivity and the vision with which the Forum was founded. Do ruthless analysis of the stock and not of individuals.

(James Sebastian) #253

This stock came to my attention due to this thread. I lost a good amount on this counter as I put about 15% of PF at one time at about 100 and there is notional loss of substantial sum. My views were expressed already in this thread. But having said that, I have tremendous respect for @thestocklady as his posts were good pointers for further learning. He did not held my hand to invest in this company nor coerce me. Everyone is responsible for their investments and so was I. Also everyone who value views expressed in valuepickr also in their decision making. So people like me without any stockpicking skills get benefited by ‘mediocre’ initiators of this thread. Also the fact is that most of the people here are mediocre, else their name would have been Rakesh J or Warren Buffet. They would not have needed to post here, instead others would have made blogs in their name or quoted their quotes liberally. Now among such ‘mediocre’ ones, there are better ‘mediocre’ ones like @Shrihari who pointed out newer aspects of investing by many and inventing money by pumping. Likewise many others views were expert ones. Other experts like @Leading_Nowhere were good in pointing out risks. I hope more superior investors would thrash/unskin or uncover good and bad more. So why this rant ? Just to thank @thestocklady for this wonderful thread and other threads initiated by you and for disclosure on your holdings. Please refrain from attacking persons, but attack the ideas. Please continue to bring out companies to public attention, if you believe they are worth investing. Let time prove it., if they were good or bad. Or if you did any service to community or not also time would tell. But that is true for any good work. Some times, it can boomerang. Also there are only very few 100% selfless individuals…

(M S S Murthy) #254

Good to see the candid and animated discussion took place yesterday on this thread. Enough is said on the right way to take a discussion forward which I feel will undoubtedly contribute to the quality here. it is human to have some pain when we see erosion- albeit a passing phase as has always been - but to pain on our decision will not help any. I continue to hold Intense since I feel if the vision of the promoter Mr Sastry realises I expect a huge upside . On innumerable occasions earlier my huntches proved right .Patience paid and I hope this time too. Continued interest of Mr Satpal Khattar has added to my conviction as these guys by virtue of their large holdings are expected to have a wider view of the scene . Thanks once again to all participants for yesterday’s additions.

(Shrihari) #256

I have gone through the discussion on whether respectable shareholders are present in this stock or not. My opinion here is that respectable/popular shareholders’ presence or absence in a stock, should not be a key criterion for buying/holding or selling a stock. It does not necessarily speak about the quality of the stock either. Here are my arguments to substantiate my stance taking Intense Tech. stock as an example:

  1. Take a look at Mr. Satpal Khattar’s holdings as per the Economic Times article that @thestocklady posted. The article was written on June 6th, 2017. His holdings were worth 664 crores of which his holding in Intense Tech was worth 4 crores, a small fraction of his overall portfolio. Further, Intense Tech stock price was 135 on that day and it is much lower today. It is safe to assume that his holding in this stock is a negligible fraction of his overall portfolio as of today. Can we assume that retailers also have a negligible portion of their overall holdings in Intense Tech.? I don’t think so. If our buy/hold/sell decision is contingent on respectable shareholders’ holdings, then we must do exactly as they do and mimic their portfolio management decisions, or we should not be bringing it up as a key argument for investing in a stock. Let me elaborate this further.

  2. Let’s make an assumption that you bought this stock last year at a 3-digit price (this is when most retailers bought the stock), thinking to yourself: “Respectable investors are here, so I should be safe”. Did it work out well for you? You have lost 60%-83% of your investment. Mr. Khattar and The Sarins are not at a notional loss because they purchased shares at a low double-digit price as per shareholding patterns. Again, this means we should be following them completely, or we do not bring up this point as an argument to buy/hold the stock. (On a separate note, you might argue that this is a notional loss, but the counterargument here is that this loss comes at an opportunity cost. You could have invested elsewhere. Further, you have lost time and effort tracking a poor-quality stock)

  3. Look at Mr. Khattar and The Sarins investment over time. Mr. Khattar had 4.98 lakh shares as of Dec 2016 and 3.92 lakh as of March 2017. He must have purchased shares at around 25 and perhaps sold them at around 200. Let’s look at this mathematically: He had X shares, sold 0.2 X at 8 times return. He has already made 60% profit on his overall investment, and this is ignoring his current holding!! Anil and Anita Sarin had ~ 10.8 lakh shares and their holding is now down to ~7.95 lakh shares. They are perhaps holding “free shares” as of today, or in other words, they must have recovered their initial investments. Are retailers holding “free shares” as these investors? I am sure many retailers will be happy to get their capital back, without any appreciation. What is the point then of saying that we are here in this stock because respectable investors are? We should be timing our entries and exits like they do.

  4. Even the smartest investors land up with sub-par investments. It is not that these investors have not done their scuttlebutt appropriately or they are using incorrect analytical techniques; this is the case, because we all face a drawback, especially in our stock market, that I’d like to call “information asymmetry”. One’s analysis is only as good as the underlying data. If data is inaccurate or incomplete, the analysis, despite being spot-on, will lead to sub-optimal decisions. If a company withholds important information that is required for analysis, and/or provides incorrect information, the analysis will lead to an incorrect conclusion. The smart investors land up with less duds though and they have a well-diversified portfolio to combat this drawback. Unless you mimic their portfolio distribution and entry/exit points completely, you might actually lose money trying to follow them.

Now let’s turn things around.

  1. These immensely successful investors are at a dis-advantage. Take the case of RJ. He will find it difficult to sell a large portion of his holdings, because it is worth a lot and not many can mobilize funds to buy them quickly. He has followers and they might pare their holdings too. If he sells a stock, concerns on the company might arise. It is not easy for successful investors with a large number of followers to sell shares. That is not true for retailers though. We can buy and sell as we please, and that is an advantage and finally, my most important point is:

  2. I’d like us to go back in time and question whether we could have bought Intense Tech shares at a low double-digit price and bail-out completely between 200-250 between Jan-March 2017. If we had done that, we would have proven ourselves to be the smartest investors among the entire lot, is it not? Now, are such scenarios even possible, you may ask? I think it is very much possible. It takes hard work to acquire the necessary skills (technical and fundamental) and train yourself to synthesize data and “problem-solve”, and be disciplined (which includes, having patience to get a good entry point, judgment to bail out on time and courage to get in when the market corrects severely). Most importantly, as a starting point, you need to have faith in yourself; And I cannot see as to how you can have faith in yourself, if you do not take responsibility for your own investments.
    My 2 cents.


That’s not 2 cents …it’s a full dollar!!
My naming khattar and sarin was only in response to the statement that no good investor owns intense.
I agree with u…their holding/selling and their cost price is immaterial.
Again requesting…pls let’s talk about business and not ownership…which is transient in nature.

(rajdesai60) #258

Any one who has attended conferences call can clarify the following issues.

  1. Whether incomtax depth order is renewed?
  2. As per Sept 18 balance sheet work in progress is zero. Whereas in March 18 balance sheet it is 151.65 Lacs. However there is no corresponding increase of property plant & equipment figure of Sept 18 figures. Where this amount is gone?
  3. They says that order book is Healthy. Then can they declare what will be the annuity revenue and license revenue from pending order book?
  4. There is no consistency in conference call opening remark. Can not they discuss in opening remark of what was discussed in previous conference call and what is now latest status of previous discussion? Then it will provide more clarity.
    As an example they have told that they are following with system integrators for deploying there platform in there lab. But afterwords there is no update about it.
    In view of above it seems that they are discussing different matters in conference calls with no relevance with each other and as a result all are confused for real state of affairs of company and its progress.In one of the conference call they have said that they are pursuing 30 million Dollers deal and success rate is 40 percent as I remember but there after no updates.
    I have emailed company for above matter 10 days back and reply is still awaited.

(rajdesai60) #259

In a previous con call they have also said the they are chasing big opportunities in Newzeland and Austrelia. What happened to it? No updates.