8k Miles Software Ltd, Cloud Computing

(Krishnaraj) #704


I want to handle any query on this article, from anyone, either over a call or over email and not on the forum. So please send me a message and we can take it from there!

Warm regards,


AGM is on 29th Sept 9 am (oops 8.59 am :)) and still AR is not available till date (17th sept)… is there any rule that AR should be available at least 2 weeks before the AGM date or I am missing something, I didn’t not get the AR both on their website and on BSE website as well… This is biggest Negative for me…

(Dhiren Shukla) #706

Go to their website.

(Funda_Buffett) #707

Annual report is already uploaded on the next day of AGM announcement ! Biggest Negative is if you don’t read properly !

(Krishnaraj) #708

@ash7979 has a point. How do we know this will not be changed or a different one presented for adoption?

Have shareholders received a copy of their annual report from the registrar? Is it the same as the copy the company has put out on its website?

Surprisingly book closure dates have not yet been announced, so who are the shareholders who are eligible to vote?

I am reminded of Geodesic Ltd which had a similar playbook to navigate compliance.

(udayp) #709

yes @diffsoft, we got the Annual report on 8th September and also 22nd Sept is the cut off date for eligibility of voting.

In terms of Section 108 of the Companies Act, 2013 read with Rule 20 of the Companies (Management and Administration) Rules, 2014 as amended by the Companies (Management and Administration) Rules, 2015 and Regulation 44 of SEBI (Listing Obligations and Disclosure Requirements) Regulations, 2015, the Company is providing the facility to its Members holding shares in physical or dematerialized form as on the cut-off date, 22ndSeptember, 2018, to exercise their right to vote by electronic means (remote e-voting) on any or all of the businesses specified in the Notice convening the 33rdAGM of the Company.

(Harsh Vijh) #710

Kindly share Ur contact details.

(Krishnaraj) #711

I have sent you a message…there is a facility to send a direct message when you click on profile picture.

You may just respond to my message.

(soundar) #712

My notes from annual report 2018:

@diffsoft Most red flags on the similar lines. Red flags in BOLD

  • Mgmt expects to double revenue by 2021
  • Added 10 new accounts producing revenue > 1M$
  • CloudEz supports Google Compute now along with AWS, Azure
  • Doubled depreciation & amortization to 25 crs
  • Total capital raised 60 crs since inception
  • Debt 75 crs
  • Business Promotion Expenses 17 crs
  • Age of receivables doesn’t sum up correctly - More than 3 years old receivables 6.33 crs from Domestic Customers
  • Statutory Audit fees 1 crs, Recruitment Expenses 1cr
  • Advances to Suppliers 16 crs - What’s this?
  • Company took unsecured loan of 37.5 crs from CFO R.S. Ramani
  • Loans given to Subsidiaries of 8K Miles Media Private Limited and its Group 106 crs & outstanding amount 58 crs
  • Few non compliance issues noted by auditors
  • Acquisition 8K Miles Inc for 7.4 crs by standalone entity amortized fully in FY18 - when this acquisition happened?
  • CEO salary 240k$, COO 144k$, CFO 40 Lacs, 6 other VPs are earning 35-40 Lacs
  • Median employee salary 5.4 Lacs
  • 197 employees on standalone company

Note: Using consolidated numbers except for the last two points

I use AWS & Azure in my work. My original investment logic was based on the expected good business potential for 8k miles being next gen MSP for AWS & Azure. But not feeling comfortable with the red flags

Why I invested in 8k miles:
Please go through below links & some of them are from Amazon AWS blogs. You can see 8k miles have been early launch partners for AWS in some of these.


Disclosure: Invested @ average price of 623

(Silmaril) #713

I was fact-checking @diffsoft 's article on Alpha Ideas and found all of what he mentions as facts to be untrue. I’ve stuck to the facts and not chosen to comment on his opinions.

@diffsoft since your article was posted on the public domain I am choosing to criticise it on the public domain.

This is for the benefit of people who may have chosen to blindly believe everything mentioned as verified fact…

  1. “The structure of 8K miles is a complex asana” - The structure is not a “complex asana”, 8k miles India is the parent of all its foreign subsidiaries and there are no cross-holdings what-so-ever. It can’t get any simpler than that !
  2. “buzzwords like Cloud, Artificial Intelligence, Deep Learning, Machine Learning,Block chains” - AWS and Microsoft both have certified the company’s competence in these areas so these are not buzzwords but genuine business enablers. I know because I’m in this industry for 18 years and can find out who is bluffing about Cloud/AI/ML and who is not.
  3. Sandeep Tandons stake not mentioned in annual report because Sandeep Tandon did not have a holding as of March 2018. This is clearly called out in the March quarter shareholding pattern disclosure as well. Sandeep re-acquired is 6% odd stake in the June quarter. Now, why he was not holding his 6% in the March quarter is a question that only Sandeep can answer, but just to clarify this is not a copy paste error by the company or the auditor.
  4. Related party transaction of 70.285 cr not accounted for as per page 177 and 179 - The related parties to which the loans (amount mentioned on page 177) were given have been clearly stated on page 179. Nowhere does the annual report in any way indicate that the 70.285 Cr loan was not a material transaction.
  5. Financial liability and the contingent liability of 21 cr as per page 166 & 177 - The annual report on page 165 calls out an amount of 21.4201 cr as “Contingent Consideration on Acquisition” and on page 177 also it is called out as “Contingent Consideration on Acquisition”. Nowhere in the annual report in any manner what-so-ever is this being shown as a “crystallized liability”. Page 177 merely mentions the liabilities in their foreign currency denominations. Read this brief to understand how contingent liability is recorded - https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/contingentliability.asp
  6. Related parties have not paid interest - On page 121 and many other sections “Interest Receivable for Loan to Related Parties” is clearly mentioned as 2.4292 cr.

8K miles may be a complete fraud for all I care, but I don’t think its fair to fabricate misunderstanding, just because one has a very low opinion of the organization.

There are many subjective reasons and perceptions that create doubt but I haven’t yet found a single fact that would qualify this company as complete fraud and trash. Maybe I’ll lose all my money, maybe I’ll make double, time will tell… Till then I will choose to rely on published and audited “facts”.

(Funda_Buffett) #714

Nicely written Siddhartha. Even there is someone who has explained on alpha ideas twitter handle very nicely as to how the facts mentioned in his post are completely wrong. Shocking is the fact that his post got retweeted over 100 times by people without they even doing their own analysis on the same !

(Cshar) #715

Dear siddartha really apperciate yoor views on 8K miles ,it will help investors like me who are not skilled to invest in IT stocks. Kudos to your post.

(Gaurav Agarwal) #716

Source -

Look who are the partners - Microsoft, Amazon & Google. All from a company who uses buzzwords like Cloud.

Session details - Joint session with Microsoft, AWS, Google & Novartis.

(phreak) #717

Its not very hard to become a Microsoft CSP or a AWS APN Partner.


Here is a small Indian company that I know of in this sector.

There are hundreds like these and these are extremely tech savvy people. Just my 2c.

As for the event - I am surprised a tech event such as this should happen in Lausanne of all places. Maybe that’s where the geeks hang out these days. :slight_smile:

Another thing I noticed is the “by Microsoft”, “by Google” and “by AWS” bits in the session titles which make it look like they are also participating. I think it should be paraphrased as this

“GxP cloud services by AWS”
“Google Genomics by Google”
“Azure ML by Microsoft”

as in, these platforms are of the said companies’, while 8k miles will be hosting the event to discuss about these technologies with AI/ML geeks that do tech events in Switzerland.

To be honest, I couldn’t suppress my grin while going through that event page.

(Gaurav Agarwal) #718

How you are so sure they are not participating? The title itself says in partnership with Azure, Amazon & Google Clould.

This is business event, where the company is trying to sell its product not a hackathon where geeks assemble and develop new prototype and code.

(phreak) #719

If I am expected to go all the way to Lausanne, the least I would expect is to know the keynote speakers. Here is how a typical tech conference of this sort looks like, for eg.


If there were speakers - anybody who was somebody, from Google, Microsoft or Amazon, I know for a fact that 8kmiles would highlight their names. I have been continuously amazed by this company and I work in this field, so take my opinion with a pinch of salt.

Here is another smell test.



The first company is probably a fraction of the size of 8k miles’ claimed size. I will let you all be the judge.

(RJ) #720

I think, the names would come up closer to the event date of 15th Oct.
We are a Cloud Startup and even we do not give names upfront when we participate in such events because anyone from CTO/VP/Engineering-Head might go depending on the commitments at that time.

They have mentioned some names which I assume are 8K employees/representatives.

(Silmaril) #721

@phreakv6 agreed that it’s not hard to become a cloud migration partner. But, not everyone can implement a hippa compliant SaaS solution. I think the session is geared towards cloud migration in the context of compliance and regulation.

(phreak) #722

By hippa compliant, I think you mean HIPAA compliance. It doesn’t seem to be half as imposing as PCI compliance to be honest. PCI compliance is something pretty much everyone who deals with cardholder data does so these are very much commoditised and not at all complicated.

(ragha1982s) #723

Good analysis. I will share my observations on the company as well.